Ep 57 The Ripple Effect of Abuse with Rosalia Rivera

Season #4 February 04, 2026

In this episode of Conversations with Kristi, Kristi is joined by Rosalia Rivera - founder of Consent Parenting, consent educator, and survivor advocate - for a deeply important conversation about prevention, healing, and the responsibility adults hold in protecting children.

Rosalia shares her lived experience of childhood sexual abuse and how becoming a parent resurfaced memories she didn’t yet have language for. Together, Kristi and Rosalia explore why so many parents avoid child safety conversations - whether through fear, overwhelm, or the belief that “this doesn’t happen in our family” - and how both avoidance and overprotection can leave children vulnerable.

This episode unpacks how grooming operates in plain sight, why children communicate harm through behaviour, and how trauma-informed, age-appropriate conversations can dramatically reduce risk. It’s a hopeful, empowering discussion that centres education as a form of freedom - not fear.

This is not about paranoia.
It’s about prevention, connection, and courage.

⚠️ Content Warning

This episode includes discussion of:

childhood sexual abuse
family and domestic violence
grooming behaviours
trauma responses
online and peer-to-peer sexual harm

Some listeners may find this content confronting. Please listen with care and pause or step away if needed. Support resources are listed below.

Key Themes Covered

Why “not my child” thinking places children at risk
How unhealed adult trauma can impact prevention efforts
Grooming behaviours in family, community, and online settings
Why children often communicate harm through behaviour
The importance of trauma-informed education for parents
How consent, boundaries, and body safety protect all children
Why silence and discomfort benefit offenders
The long-term impacts of abuse when children are not believed
How prevention protects children and prevents future offending
Why normalising these conversations creates safer communities

Why This Conversation Matters

Child sexual abuse thrives in silence, stigma, and discomfort.

Many parents avoid these conversations - not because they don’t care, but because they feel overwhelmed, triggered, or unsure where to start. This episode reminds us that education doesn’t create harm - it reduces it.

By noticing behaviour, asking questions, and having ongoing, age-appropriate conversations, adults can interrupt grooming, support disclosure, and create environments where children feel safe to speak.

Prevention is possible - and it starts at home.

Practical Support & Resources

If this episode has raised questions about how to start protective, trauma-informed conversations with children, Kristi has created practical tools to support parents and carers.

🔗 Explore resources and education: 👉 www.kristimcvee.com

Resources include:

conversation guides for parents
body safety education tools
support for having calm, protective conversations without fear or overwhelm

You can also explore Rosalia Rivera’s work at:
👉 www.consentparenting.com

Support Services (Australia)

If you or someone you love needs support, help is available:

Lifeline - 13 11 14 or lifeline.org.au
1800RESPECT (sexual assault, domestic & family violence) - 1800 737 732 or 1800respect.org.au
Kids Helpline (ages 5–25) - 1800 55 1800 or kidshelpline.com.au

If you are in immediate danger, please contact emergency services.

Episode Transcript

Kristi McVee (00:01.806)
Good morning. Well, good morning for myself, but I am with a very special guest. really excited to be joined by Rosalia Rivera, founder of Consent Parenting, host of About Consent podcast and one of the most powerful consent educators and abuse prevention specialists in our space. I can tell you I'm a bit of a fan girl and I have been meaning to have you on the podcast for a while. So thank you so much for being here today and for working with me between

our big time zones because it's like 16 hours difference. So like I said, you have been an inspiration to me. I haven't been in this space for as long as you have. But when I think about who I want to be when I grow up, it's you. thank you for chatting to me. I guess what my listeners would want to hear is because my podcast is based similar to yours.

Rosalia Rivera (00:32.476)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (00:47.756)
goodness.

Kristi McVee (00:59.0)
to talking to parents and adults about child safety and how to prevent child sexual abuse. So tell me how consent parenting started and how you became consent parenting because you're one of the biggest names in this field.

Rosalia Rivera (01:13.636)
Yeah, well, first of all, thank you for inviting me, Kristy. I actually admire the way that you teach this information as well. And so I was really excited when you invited me to join you. um, consent parenting. I love that we're both talking to parents because I've seen a lot of education around this topic just to adults in general. But I think parents are the biggest, like we

we're the biggest stakeholders in this work. And for me, as a survivor myself, with lived experience of child sexual abuse at the hands of my father, from a generation of survivors, my mother is a survivor, my sister is a survivor, I have many family members who are survivors, I realized when I became a parent that this was something I wanted to talk to my kids about.

My own memories actually didn't even surface until I became a parent. So it was a really interesting journey because I thought it was just my sister and it turned out that it was also me. But when I started wanting to educate my youngest, my oldest, who is actually now 14, he was four at the time, I started digging into all the information that I could find and I found it to be extremely triggering because

I didn't realize I had my own trauma. And so I went to a therapist, I was like, why am I getting so triggered? You know, trying to just teach my kids about this. Like, is it because of my sister, you know? And a lot of memories that I had of my own abuse started to now make sense. These sort of fragmented pieces of like, why was I afraid of my dad? Why didn't I want to go on a trip with him by myself? Why, you know, why, why, why? And it was all starting to come to...

the surface and I realized that a lot of the information that was being shared about this topic wasn't coming from a trauma informed place for parents who were survivors. And then as I started digging deeper, I realized how prevalent this was and I thought, my gosh, there must be so many parents who are going through this, right? Who are either unhealed, haven't stepped into their own healing journeys, you know, or getting triggered. And then what...

Rosalia Rivera (03:31.094)
are probably experiencing what I went through, which was that I would get triggered. I would stop educating myself. I would just become overprotective instead of educating myself more, becoming proactive. And so that cycle really became toxic for me. realized I have three kids. So every time that, you know, a new child needed to go to daycare or needed to, you know, go do something more independently,

it would come up again, like the fear and the anxiety. So I thought, well, why isn't anybody talking about this? And isn't there a way to navigate this in a way that's not as triggering? So that's what kind of put me on the path of figuring out how do I talk about this to the survivor experience, but also in a way that really lands with them to get them to move through those triggers. And I'm not a mental health professional, but I wanted to.

help them find those resources so that they can put themselves on those healing paths. And I think that that's just in general for any parent. think all parents have some kind of trauma, whether it's neglect from a parent or sexual abuse or somewhere in between, there's something that needs to be healed. And so that was a big part of my advocacy work with getting this education out there to parents was we need to heal from whatever we went through so we're not.

Kristi McVee (04:40.386)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (04:55.558)
putting our kids at risk because we can't push ourselves to get through and do this work and be proactive. And interestingly enough, as I started to do this, I realized that there are two different kinds of parents. There are parents who are completely unaware that this is an issue because they've never experienced it or they don't think that they know someone. They likely do know somebody who's a survivor, but they think that they don't. So it hasn't directly impacted their lives.

Kristi McVee (05:12.238)
Mm.

Kristi McVee (05:18.562)
Yep. Yep.

Rosalia Rivera (05:24.592)
So they are walking around with the not my kids syndrome. And then you have other parents who are acutely aware because of their own experience and are hyper vigilant, overprotective, still not educating themselves because it's triggering. And so you get these two sides of the spectrum that are avoiding the topic altogether and it's not protecting kids. And so I wanted to really approach

Kristi McVee (05:40.557)
Yes.

Kristi McVee (05:46.648)
Mmm.

Rosalia Rivera (05:51.738)
this education with a sensitivity to both of those types of parents to try to help get this message across and really bridge that gap so we can start being more preventive focused instead of just responding to it after it happens.

Kristi McVee (06:06.99)
Yeah, such an interesting, there's so many points in everything you just explained there because like you having your own children and then, you know, trying to, you know, educate them about body safety or just safety in general. That was your like a lot of parents, they have their kids and then their memories resurface, like it's been suppressed and repressed and

That's one of the things that I am very acutely aware of is how many parents contact me and go, oh my gosh, I've just had my first child. And all of a sudden I remember I was abused. And so it's like, you know, your brain has protected you until that point. And then you have your own children. And of course that is your body and your nervous system and your brain goes, hey, we need to protect these kids. And then all of a sudden, bam, you're dealing with a brand new baby or a child.

Rosalia Rivera (06:41.636)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

Kristi McVee (06:59.734)
and then you're dealing with your trauma as well. And so it's very prevalent and I'm sure you hear it a lot.

Rosalia Rivera (07:05.944)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it's it's heartbreaking because there are parents who you know on top of everything that you worry about as a parent Now you're dealing with this and if you've never disclosed you feel very alone because you're like, do I talk to about this? How do I how do I explain this? Somebody's you know gonna think that I'm being paranoid and it's actually you know, you're not being paranoid You're you're just having awareness. Your nervous system is responding to this

And if someone isn't educated about, let's say, grooming, they may be seeing those red flag signs, but they're not educated about it, so they don't know how to articulate it. And then they think, you know, someone says, you're being, you know, obsessed or worried or paranoid about this. And then they might dismiss it, you know, and then put their child at risk. So it's just so critical for parents to get educated, but to do it in a way that makes sense for them, that is trauma informed, and that can help them move through this because

There are so many great tools today versus 20 years ago for parents to be able to do this work. And a lot of times they're learning it themselves for the first time. You know, so it's an education for both the parent and the child.

Kristi McVee (08:15.15)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (08:20.654)
For sure. And this generation is definitely doing a lot of healing and a lot of work that previous generations haven't done. or didn't have the tools or didn't have the resources to be able to heal and to to protect. Because the other interesting point you point you shared was that when you were learning about this stuff, it was causing you to shut down. And, you know, you probably hear this all the time. And I've heard of stories of

parents or children when they were children, you know, trying to disclose and their parents have dismissed them, rejected the disclosure and basically shut them down. And I think for a lot of people that does a lot of damage and it can harm that relationship, not only that relationship with the parent, but it can harm that person and they have added trauma from the abuse. And the interesting point is, is for some people if they have not

healed their own trauma, a disclosure will that they don't have any tools in their tool belt to be able to actually receive that disclosure. And a lot of our parents probably were in that space, they just didn't know how to deal with it. So they shut everything down and repressed it because a lot of parents will go, what are you talking about? You never told me. And yeah, so that's another really interesting thing. And, you know, there's a lot to be. It's really sad because it does so much damage and so much harm.

Rosalia Rivera (09:39.013)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (09:49.69)
Yeah, what I think a lot of people don't realize and I wish that I had a magic ball to show every parent, like, this is the potential future that you're dealing with if your child were to get abused and especially if there are things that you can do about it, right? It's not guaranteed you can learn abuse prevention, of course, and teach it to your kids.

and abuse can still happen. There's no guarantee, you know, a 100%, but we can dramatically reduce the rates. And so why wouldn't you, you know, take the steps to reduce it? But what I wish I could get parents to see, particularly those who, you know, have that not my kid syndrome, it's like, that happens in other neighborhoods or that would, you know, that doesn't happen in our community, et cetera. They, I wish I could show them a crystal ball to say, look, if something were to happen, this is the ramifications that you're dealing with. It is going to impact

not just your child, but it's gonna impact your life and potentially that child's siblings, it can ripple through a family, particularly if it's someone within the family. It is going to you know, shatter your ability to trust people for you know, the rest of your life really. And obviously that child child, especially when there is grooming that's happened, I don't think people realize how that really

Kristi McVee (11:00.782)
Mm-hmm.

much.

Rosalia Rivera (11:12.034)
shatters your reality, right? You're like, I trusted that person. They seem like such a good person. thought that, you know, I can't believe I didn't see it. And then the guilt that you are then dealing with as a parent, you know, your child feeling like they've destroyed the family or, you know, they upset the parents or they did something wrong, the shame that they're carrying for what happened, for how they responded, for the fact that they, you know, didn't tell or...

Kristi McVee (11:31.502)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (11:39.514)
you know, told the wrong person or somebody didn't believe that, like that, and that's just, and that's just the emotional. And then we're talking about the court system and the potential retraumatization and, you know, dealing with investigations. And if, you know, that person denies it, and then you're now dealing with trying to prove something that you might not have evidence for, like the, the cascade of issues that come from this incident or series of incidents is enormous. And

Kristi McVee (11:42.926)
It's so destructive.

Rosalia Rivera (12:08.832)
why not take the steps to prevent it by having those potentially uncomfortable conversations now instead of having to deal with those situations after the fact. So you know, I wish that I could paint that picture, but it's such a grim picture to paint for parents. It's like, please don't go down this path if you don't have to. You know, do the things that are hard on the front end so you don't have to do the things that are hard on the back end.

Kristi McVee (12:30.818)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (12:34.264)
yet.

Rosalia Rivera (12:36.87)
You're always gonna have to choose a heart. You're either choosing this heart or that heart. So which heart do you wanna choose? you know?

Kristi McVee (12:45.25)
I think, and once you know, you can't unknow. Like it's catastrophic to a childhood and it's catastrophic to a family and it can be catastrophic to the adulthood of that child when they become an adult. I mean, you mentioned so much of just the child being in their childhood, but when a person goes through such a trauma and it hasn't been, it hasn't been helped or healed or hasn't been supported through that, the person hasn't been supported.

You know, we know and Australia has, you know, got some really good research now that, you know, it can lead to substance abuse, it can lead to domestic violence, it can lead to further physical and neglect harm and ongoing generational trauma to the next generation and the next generation. So it's not just, you know, like you said, choose your heart, having these conversations could prevent that from ever happening and occurring. I mean, there's no promises in this world, but

I'm with you. We know that someone having some of this information and having a safe person and having all of the resources and tools that we talk about is going to significantly, significantly reduce the potential. And I hate that I think like this, but sometimes for me, I think, well, and this is how I thought when my daughter was younger, right? I was like, if my child knows what she needs to know, body safety, I know what to watch out for.

and we catch it early, well, at least it's not my child. And I know that that sounds really horrible. We'd like these people to not even be offending against anyone or abusing anyone. But the thing that I had to get comfortable with is that we can only do when it comes to our kids and our family, we have to just protect who we can protect and which is our little world, our little family and have those conversations within our little community because

Rosalia Rivera (14:37.446)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (14:42.822)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (14:43.564)
they're the only people we can protect. We can't protect everyone. And even though we do this work, and I'm sure you feel the same way, sometimes I'm like, this problem is so big and people don't realize. And I just like you want to show them the crystal ball and go, come on guys, get on board because I want everyone to know this.

Rosalia Rivera (15:00.026)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it is frustrating that this issue continues to be, well, first of all, besides being taboo, there is just this mentality of that happens to other people. Like that's probably the one thing that drives me crazy is everyone thinks it's somebody else's kid. And I get, you know, I totally get it. Nobody wants to think it could be their own, you know, brother or sister or

Grandparent or teacher or coach, you know, somebody in their community a family friend Of course, we don't want to think that and it's not about walking around paranoid and suspecting everyone But when you have the information it to me, it's actually a form of freedom because I actually now know what are the behaviors to look for and I don't have to suspect everyone because I have this information in my back pocket, so

Kristi McVee (15:36.782)
mind.

Kristi McVee (15:47.029)
Mm.

Rosalia Rivera (15:58.14)
It is actually a form of freedom. when we dismantle the stigma around this topic, if we can normalize it, to me, that's the biggest, you know this is why I love that you have a podcast and that you're talking about this because the more people are talking about this and normalizing this conversation, the more parents are listening and sharing it with another parent and saying, I think we all need to be hearing this.

Kristi McVee (16:11.022)
you

Kristi McVee (16:25.035)
Mm.

Rosalia Rivera (16:25.284)
It takes a little bit of courage because I think sometimes parents go, am I going to be looked at as that parent who... But the more that we are all that parent, then actually the person who doesn't want to talk about it is going to be the one that becomes that parent. And why don't they want to talk about it? Why wouldn't you want to talk about something that's going to help protect your kids? So you know, we see it like Jonathan Haidt, the anxious generation, he's talking about it.

Kristi McVee (16:31.662)
you

Kristi McVee (16:49.336)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (16:53.506)
Yes.

Rosalia Rivera (16:55.036)
when it comes to online and so a lot of parents are like, my young child, my young child isn't online so I don't have to worry about it just yet. But this is happening in person too and young children are equally as vulnerable for so many reasons. So we really just have to keep pushing and talking about this. And I was actually doing some research the other day looking at cancer and how...

Kristi McVee (17:02.666)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (17:21.286)
cancer used to be seen as a taboo topic. You would never imagine that today because there are people that are running marathons to raise awareness for breast cancer, you know. But 50 years ago, nobody wanted to talk about cancer. People who had cancer were terrified for people to know that they had cancer. There was this idea that you somehow brought it upon yourself and they were so uninformed about it that they thought it was contagious.

Kristi McVee (17:41.805)
Wow.

Rosalia Rivera (17:50.906)
Like there was so much misinformation and stigma around this, you know, deadly, like, if you have it, like, we don't want the family to know. Like there were so many ways that this was taboo. And we just were like, you know, if you look at it today, you would never think that that was the case, you know? Same thing with AIDS. AIDS, on the other hand, it was very obvious that it was a taboo thing. It had to do again with sexuality. I think that's typically the connection point, but you would never think that with cancer. And so,

Kristi McVee (18:00.303)
Wow.

Kristi McVee (18:08.204)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristi McVee (18:15.915)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (18:19.373)
No.

Rosalia Rivera (18:20.092)
I started reading like, well, what changed that? Right. And it was just education. was just people willing to be courageous enough to talk about it. And so I think, you know, with this issue, it's the same thing. And we, we really are at a point, I think, in humanity, where if we don't talk about this, the rates of perpetration are going, I mean, they're already through the roof. People don't know it because they don't want to talk about it. They see it in the news.

But again, it comes back to this not my kid, not my community, it's not happening here. It doesn't matter. know, Alexandra Gucci, who is a very wealthy person, you know, comes from a well-known wealthy family, was abused. And you can say the same thing for, you know, someone who lives in a low income home, you know, with alcoholic parents or with abusive parents. Like, it doesn't matter this type of crime.

Kristi McVee (18:59.256)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (19:04.033)
Yep.

Rosalia Rivera (19:17.456)
does not discriminate. It is impacting everyone. And so, you know to me, that's, I think, a really important message we need to get across, because survivors who have been through this know it can happen to anyone, especially you know, if you've been abused by a sibling. Most people don't want to talk about that. If it's been another child, people don't want to talk about you know, peers abusing peers. But that's something that's on the rise.

Kristi McVee (19:20.684)
No, it doesn't.

Kristi McVee (19:35.607)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (19:45.389)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (19:46.054)
There are so many factors, there's so many things that we need to get educated about. So I get that parents might feel overwhelmed by it. And I think for me, as someone who understands that that, I was overwhelmed by it when my kids were little. I just wanna say to parents, this isn't something that you're gonna solve overnight. And like you said, Kristy, this is about protecting your own child. You don't have to protect everyone's child. You just need to have that conversation in your home with whoever

you need to have that with whoever is you know, a potential caregiver for your child who's spending time with your child. That's who you need to be having this conversation with. Beyond just teaching your own child, you as the adult have to be that front line, that firewall, you know, having those conversations, which is why I love your cards so much too. I was really happy that you, I think the more tools that are out there for parents to be able to talk about this, that's...

Kristi McVee (20:31.436)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (20:36.088)
Thank you.

Kristi McVee (20:42.818)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (20:44.304)
what's really needed right now because that's what starts the education process. And then the support, you know, I think for parents who have, you know, had lived experience to find someone that understands and is compassionate. If you're not ready to go to a therapist, I think sometimes people fear, you know, it's going to open up a can of worms and I'm not ready to deal with that yet. That's okay. But you can find someone to help you have

Kristi McVee (21:00.707)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (21:13.564)
like grounding strategies so that when you do get triggered, you can navigate through those triggers and continue to do this work. don't have to deal with your own stuff just yet if you're not ready for that, but you do need to figure out how to move through this education so that you can teach it to your kids, so that you can have those conversations. You don't have to tell the world that something happened to you you. I think it's...

Kristi McVee (21:25.763)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (21:38.812)
absolutely appropriate and normal for any parent, whether they've had lived experience or not, to want to protect their kids from this. So for those who are thinking, you know, if I talk about this, people are going to think that it happened to me. They're not. They're just going to think, I guess you're, you know, worried about this for your child. And so as you get more and more educated, you can start to have those conversations with more ease. And, you know, listening to people, you know, I know you have great experts that you're bringing on to your podcast, like

Kristi McVee (22:07.704)
Mm-hmm.

Rosalia Rivera (22:07.836)
Share that, you don't even have to have the conversation. Just say, hey, I heard this really important podcast episode. I think you should listen to it. And that will spark the conversation. They might get back to you and say, oh my gosh, I had no idea. This is horrible. And then you have a starting point for a conversation. And it has nothing to do with you, with experts talking about this and saying, hey, you guys all need to wake up. This is happening.

Kristi McVee (22:15.523)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (22:20.332)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kristi McVee (22:33.26)
Yeah, we can't ignore it anymore. ignoring it is actually really damaging and dangerous for our society and for our kids and families. There was so much in what you just said there. And I think I get frustrated with the not my child, not my parent. And one of the things you pointed out was this happens to every socioeconomic group that

My experience in the police and investigating is the ones that have more money have more to lose. And so they hide it better and they, you know, and they can manipulate and they tend to be more manipulative in the system. The people who are maybe don't have the financial backing or don't have that opportunity to, you know, hide it as easier are the ones who we see a lot more in the media. And so, you know, just recently, like two days ago, I

Rosalia Rivera (23:04.06)
Hmm

Rosalia Rivera (23:20.4)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (23:24.792)
famous Australian author who wrote kids books was found engaging with child sex offenders online and he's now been arrested and charged and is going through the court system. So, you know, the thing is, is that it's not everyone, but it can be anyone. And in my experience, and I say this a lot, you know, a child sex offender doesn't just offend every child that they see in every community, they pick them strategically.

Rosalia Rivera (23:28.919)
Rosalia Rivera (23:50.47)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (23:50.741)
And they pick them because of how the child reacts and how that what the child knows and whether they the child understands what's happening or not. And they pick it based on the parents and whether the parents are, you know, involved and protective and, you know, have have conversations. And if they're, you know, if the vibe doesn't, they have this radar used to frustrate me, because sometimes I would see, you know, they would they they like sharks, I can smell it. And it's

Rosalia Rivera (24:19.814)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (24:20.302)
not a great analogy, but they literally can go from family to family or child to child and know which ones to target based on how the child reacts. And so I don't think people realize how strategic and manipulative they are. that's where, when I left the police and when I started writing my book and about the conversations with kids cards, it was about, it doesn't matter who's going to do it, just teach this to your kids so that they have

the tools. And not only that, in my experience, and I'm sure you can relate, these tools are life skills. Some of these tools will help your child become more confident, speak up for themselves, advocate for themselves, they'll feel secure in their environments, they'll able they're able to understand, and they'll have the emotional intelligence like my daughter in year 12. She had some issues at school, she had to have a meeting with the principal and like the student services.

And they actually said to me or to her, you're so emotionally intelligent and aware you understand exactly what you're feeling and you're able to articulate it well. And my daughter looked at me because I was sitting next to her and said, it's because of my mom. And so the thing is, is when our children have all of those, can you imagine how much easier life is when we can understand exactly how we feel, whether it's I don't feel safe and know what to do and help seek in those moments or

Rosalia Rivera (25:30.821)
Hmm.

Kristi McVee (25:46.017)
I'm just feeling scared because this is something really different. I haven't done it before. I'm not feeling comfortable because this is really exciting as well, know, like fun to be scared at times. And so when our kids can understand all of that, that, and we don't even, some adults don't even know how to understand those feelings. So when we, when I was teaching this stuff to my daughter at two and three years old, I was starting to learn. So it's, it's, it's amazing what

Rosalia Rivera (26:03.245)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (26:11.836)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (26:14.38)
this education can do and not just this education, just changing the way we think about behaviour in general for children.

Rosalia Rivera (26:22.14)
Yeah, yeah, 100%. And yeah, as you were saying that I was thinking, you know, again, for those with lived experience, if they were shut down in their childhood, right, you are to be seen and not heard. If you were afraid to speak up and tell what happened, like that stays with you. And then if you're now trying to teach your child about how to set boundaries, but you were never allowed to set boundaries.

that's really challenging, you know? So you may read this information and go, okay, this is what I need to teach my child, but you aren't modeling it because you can't set boundaries as an adult with other adults, right? And your kids are seeing that. So it is this really transformative process when you start to learn about this and you start to get educated and you start practicing it with them. It is equally empowering for you as a parent and healing in that process as it is

to your child and I think you can't fake that. You can try, you can say, okay, make sure that you speak up and use your voice but if they see that you're not doing it, they're gonna say, something's not matching here. And so it's interesting that you say that with your daughter because I'm in a similar position. My oldest is 14 now and I know that they can speak up and they feel safe coming to talk to me. Hey mom, know.

I heard this in the playground or I heard this between my friends or yeah, my friends are doing this and you know, or they're they're talking about these things and we can have those honest conversations that I when my kid was four, I couldn't even say the word penis. Like it was it was very uncomfortable to me. You know, my husband, fortunately, he grew up in a very sex positive home. I would say sex neutral home, actually. You know, they weren't afraid to talk about it. They weren't actively talking about it. But in my home.

Kristi McVee (27:47.757)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (28:12.442)
you didn't say that word and you certainly didn't talk about private parts. was like, you know, my mom just didn't know how to, she was a survivor herself, you know? it's, We can actually break these cycles, you know, and we can empower kids in ways that we can't even have imagined for ourselves. And that feeling when your child gets to be older and you know that the work that you put in all those years, you know, growing up to where they're now teens,

Kristi McVee (28:14.062)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (28:21.432)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (28:41.292)
and you can see that this work paid off is one of the best feelings in the world. Yeah, it's just incredible and it is hard work. You know, it can be at times when you're uncomfortable having, how do I talk to my kid about this or how do I bring this up or how do I talk to you know, grandma about something that I know she's gonna push back on? I actually just posted this morning on Instagram, I went to the gym, I really didn't wanna go this morning. Its like, I could just.

Kristi McVee (28:44.987)
big time. Big time.

Kristi McVee (28:55.438)
Yes.

Kristi McVee (29:09.678)
You forced yourself.

Rosalia Rivera (29:11.174)
go to the coffee shop, yeah, and like have coffee and breakfast instead, but I pushed myself to do it. Every time that I push myself to do those things, I remind myself, like, I know that long-term, I'm gonna be so happy that I did this, and it's the same thing with those hard conversations. you know? I don't necessarily wanna talk to the school about this thing that, you know, I've been needing to talk. Like one of the things, for example, and I think the school board,

is probably, you if they get an email from me, they're like, no, what now? You know? But one of the things, yeah, one of the things, and I have a note here somewhere, is that I want to talk to the school board about AI, that I don't think that there should be, know, grok is something that kids can use at the school. And I think that, you know, the school is just completely unaware, and I have to have this conversation with them. And, you know, I talked to the,

Kristi McVee (29:39.95)
This time it me.

Kristi McVee (29:51.957)
yeah.

Kristi McVee (29:59.343)
Goodness.

Rosalia Rivera (30:06.32)
parent advisory committee, you know, the PTA and said, you know, this is what I want to propose. And I, you know, even though I've been doing this work and they know the work that I do, I still have this sort of sense of like, they're going to think I'm that parent. But I push myself to go, you know what, if it's not me, then who? And is it better to be uncomfortable and just maybe be seen as that parent or let kids go on grok and, you know, find all sorts of

Kristi McVee (30:21.773)
Yep.

Kristi McVee (30:25.475)
Yeah, exactly.

Rosalia Rivera (30:35.376)
terrible things that they shouldn't be, you and then that could potentially lead to who knows what. Based on the data, we see, you know, kids getting access to pornography early increases their risk for sexually harmful behavior. That's statistically and factually true. So would I rather be uncomfortable and have that conversation with the PTA and the school board or just stay in my comfort zone and go, well, maybe hopefully nothing happens, you know?

Kristi McVee (30:39.949)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (31:04.566)
And not my kid. Not my kid. My kid wouldn't do that.

Rosalia Rivera (31:04.845)
So, and not my kid, my, yeah. So like I just, and the reason why I'm even doing it is because my son, know, when I asked him, you know, so do the kids in the school use AI? Well, yeah, sometimes, you know, they use Grok at lunchtime and you know, it's like, okay, thank you. Thank you for letting me know. And it's, you know.

Kristi McVee (31:26.528)
Our kids just want, our kids have grown up with like, we just tell our parents and we're not going to get in trouble for being honest. So, you know, I mean, look, there's been times when I haven't reacted very well to news about something and like I've had to do the repair afterwards and go, look, I did, I wish I had reacted differently. I'm so sorry that I didn't listen at the time. Let's like, can we, you okay if we reset this? Cause like,

Rosalia Rivera (31:41.744)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (31:50.672)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (31:51.651)
Sometimes with our own, it's easier telling other people how to do it with their kids than it is to do it for us. But our kids are so used to just, yeah, I just talk about what's happening and it's okay. I'm not gonna get in trouble because I know. And even when they don't feel like, I remember when my daughter was about eight years old, there was a girl in her class that was being really mean to a child with a disability.

Rosalia Rivera (31:54.94)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

Kristi McVee (32:16.426)
And she came in and she told me about it because she was like, it's so I don't like it. And she was her friend. so and when my daughter tried to step up and advocate for this other kid, the girl started bullying my daughter because, know, how dare you tell me I can't do this. So I ended up having to step in and report it to the principal and

Rosalia Rivera (32:23.184)
Hmm.

Rosalia Rivera (32:33.727)
Right.

Kristi McVee (32:38.486)
I remember having this conversation with my daughter. She's like, no, no, please don't talk to them about it. It's not like I don't want them to hate me. I don't want them to get, you know, and it's real stuff. Our kids are dealing with these real issues. And I just remember us sitting with her and I said, I know that, you know, it feels like we're dobbing and telling on her. And, but, you know, if we go and speak to the principal and let them know, and they can help her.

Rosalia Rivera (32:47.994)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (33:03.522)
get support and try and find out if something's happening at home that's making her behave this way. Then maybe, we're actually helping because then she won't do it to someone else or she might get the support she needs and now we know that something's happening. said, so it's actually a good thing when we tell an adult, it's actually a good thing when we report it to the people who are meant to help. And so that was kind of like a stepping point because every time afterwards she would say, like your son.

come to you and say, oh yeah, that's happening. And then you're like, arguing with yourself going, do I report it? Do I keep it to myself? Am I going to be that parent? And in most cases, I'm like you, you know, I've gone in and had a conversation emailed the principal. I had like the, the principal's personal email because I was like, you know, Hey, just giving you a heads up that this is happening, giving you a heads up that this is actually, you know, here's some links just so you know what's going on here. And you know, it's,

Rosalia Rivera (33:40.656)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (33:59.876)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (34:02.186)
It's a tough gig, like it's a tough gig being that parent but too many people turn away.

Rosalia Rivera (34:08.144)
Yeah, yeah, and it is challenging because I think a lot of parents are trying to figure out what's the right decision. know, Do I Do I step in and you know, there's been situations like that similar to yours where, you know, my child has told me something and I've had to say, you know, I just want to let you know, thank you for first of all, for telling me for being brave and telling me because I, you know, there is the idea of being a tattletale is very real for kids.

Kristi McVee (34:27.544)
Mm.

Rosalia Rivera (34:34.428)
There's peer pressure, there's the fear of, you know, then I'm gonna be seen as like a, you know, a snitch and, you know, that I can't defend myself or handle this myself. And so even, you know, with other parents, I had a situation where my child found out about this show that he was, you know, ended up searching something on YouTube about. because we have the policy of, you know, it's...

the device is always in a common space. My husband was like, what are you watching? It was just a review about a show that's actually not for kids, but it looks like it could be, but it's not. And he said, my friend mentioned this show. And we're like, that's definitely not a show for kids. So you can stop searching about it. We can tell you what it is about, but it's not for kids.

Kristi McVee (35:11.148)
No.

Yeah.

Kristi McVee (35:21.664)
Yeah, and kids don't know.

Rosalia Rivera (35:28.86)
It's actually a show that's like on a streaming service. So we have the streaming service with a code. So I knew that he wouldn't be able to access it. Right. And it's that checklist of like knowing what to do that you're like, OK, we're good. I was able to see that the kid, you know, he was looking this up. We were able to talk to him about it. He wasn't in trouble. We know he can access the show. You know, All those things were checkmarked. But then I thought, you know, this is a kid that my my child is always hanging out with. I think his parents should know.

Kristi McVee (35:42.498)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (35:50.798)
Mm.

Kristi McVee (35:58.904)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (35:59.024)
that, you know, and so I, then I was like, do I have that conversation with the parents and how do I have it so that that kid doesn't get in trouble, but also then my kid doesn't look like he's being a rat for, you know. So it took me a bit and I was like, okay, I need to talk to them. I knew them fortunately, and they're very nice people.

Kristi McVee (36:08.695)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (36:17.04)
So I just laid it out and I said, look, it's not about getting him in trouble. Maybe he wasn't aware. I just want to let you guys know so that you can have a conversation or shut down the show. It's not appropriate. It's like almost soft porn and he should not be watching it. Anyway, explain the whole thing. They were very happy that I you know, reached out to them. Very cool parents too that were like, I'm sure very cool about talking to him and wanting to be on board with like,

Helping him navigate, know, these kinds of shows aren't, you know, appropriate. Anyway, the parent actually had, funny enough, caught the show, didn't, you know, let him watch it, so he knew, but he somehow still had told my child about it. I was like, thanks a lot. You know? But it was one of those, like, you know, I was uncomfortable having that conversation. I didn't want my kid to, you know, be uncomfortable, but.

Kristi McVee (37:01.816)
Yeah, yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (37:13.904)
We talked about it and that's the beauty of this is by the time your kids are older and you've had these things, you know, as part of your, it's weaved into your parenting. It's a normal conversation that doesn't feel weird and awkward. You might still feel a little bit awkward like having to reach out to those parents or to the school or to whoever, but you and your child have a safety connection. And that is one of the most important things because

Kristi McVee (37:29.56)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (37:39.042)
Yes. Yes.

Rosalia Rivera (37:43.43)
The last thing you want is if in the event that something happens that your child is dealing with it alone or that they don't tell and it continues to escalate and they're just living with that trauma and then you find out about it when they're in their 30s, you know, that's the worst case scenario. So this work is not easy, but it is absolutely 1000 % worth doing because you are building a bond that your child can count on you that they know you're their advocate.

Kristi McVee (37:57.166)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (38:13.276)
and you're doing everything that you can to mitigate and reduce the risk, which we all need to be doing, because unfortunately this issue, this crime is not getting better. We think by now it's getting better, you know, the numbers are not showing that. The statistics, it is starting online with older children who then become adults who...

Kristi McVee (38:31.671)
No.

Rosalia Rivera (38:39.984)
go down the porn rabbit hole, that's one huge area that is you know, a big issue. To adult offenders who are perpetrating on young children and people don't know and they are afraid to say something if they see something because they don't want to accuse somebody, they don't have the facts, they don't have the details, don't know, how do I talk about this to someone? They might see a teacher who's doing something that kind of isn't appropriate, but they're like the star teacher so they don't know how to talk about it.

We just, need to get educated. It's just not something that parents have the luxury of, of, you know, dismissing, ignoring. Yeah. It's just not, it's, to me, it's almost irresponsible to not get educated about this.

Kristi McVee (39:17.239)
ignoring anymore.

Kristi McVee (39:27.538)
for sure. mean, we teach road safety, we teach, you know, what to do around a hot oven, we teach our kids all of these safety messaging, you know, what to how to swim, all of the things and yet, one of the biggest ones and I think because people don't want to live in a world where this is actually exists. Yet, almost every family and if not every family, I would I would say that every family has a member that has been sexually abused as a child and

whether they've disclosed or not disclosed, we know that the stats are pretty pretty horrific in regards to disclosure. Whether and you know, in Australia, we have the stats that it's on average 24 years before first disclosure 30 for men, 99 % of men will never tell anyone. And we know that boys, you know, they're not at the same rate as girls. In Australia, it's one in three girls, one in five boys, but you know, boys are still very much victims of child sexual abuse. And it's

Rosalia Rivera (40:14.353)
Mm-hmm.

Kristi McVee (40:26.954)
like I said, catastrophic for them. And we also a couple of years ago had research that showed a child that had been or an adult who had been sexually abused as a child actually has an increased rate of death in middle age because the stress and the impact and the substance abuse and the you know, they have an increased risk of about eight times of so dying in middle age is more common for someone who's been sexually abused as a child.

Rosalia Rivera (40:41.018)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kristi McVee (40:55.35)
And if we have all of this unhealed trauma, don't even like get to that stage where you might not be able to connect with your family. When your kids turn up, you might not be able to have a healthy, safe relationship with your kids because you're holding onto this trauma that has basically made you not trust anyone, not trust yourself, not trust your instincts, your gut feelings, your early warning signs.

There's a saying that says when some when you get sexually abused by a stranger, you don't trust the world. But when you get sexually abused by someone, you know, you don't trust yourself. And, and it's so true, because you were talking about grooming and the impacts of grooming. And so many people, first of all, they didn't know they were being groomed as a child. So then they take it on as like, I asked for this, I deserve this, or they start, you know, taking on the burdens and

Rosalia Rivera (41:28.346)
Hmm.

Kristi McVee (41:47.363)
The one thing that I saw time and time again, and that breaks my heart is that children often take on the responsibility and of what adults should be taking on. They take on the responsibility of it's my fault if the family breaks up. It's my fault that I was abused. It's my fault that I did because I spoke up. It's my fault. And so that follows them their whole lives. And there's just so much damage. And I wish, you know, I wish I didn't have to do this work, but

Rosalia Rivera (41:57.766)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (42:16.98)
after seeing what I've seen and you yourself, you you know that this work is necessary. question for you, though, with regards to that, it's not getting better. I do have people say to me, do you think that you've got confirmation bias because you see it and you talk to so many survivors and victims? Do think that you just believe it's really bad because you see it all the time? And I'm like,

Rosalia Rivera (42:16.997)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (42:34.043)
Hmm.

Kristi McVee (42:42.766)
No. Thank God for research because the research is showing no. But you know, I think what I have seen is it's always been bad. It's just we now talk about we're now seeing kids have the body safety education, they're now being taught at schools. I hope that's the same case in your where you are. And so they now know that they have rights and they can speak up whereas

20 years ago, 30 years ago, or when I was a child, we had no rights or we didn't know that we had.

Rosalia Rivera (43:14.02)
Yeah, yeah. it's funny that you bring that up because I've had people say to me, well, I think the rates are going up because kids are actually reporting now, you know? And statistically speaking, you know, the rates have always been high. we've, you know, people in the field that, you know, researchers, experts that I've talked to have always said they're likely higher. It's just that people

Kristi McVee (43:39.746)
Yes.

Rosalia Rivera (43:40.996)
you know, never reported. And so yeah, we are seeing that more kids are reporting. mean, we saw, and this was actually a really good test case when COVID happened, the rates dropped, right? Because there weren't mandated reporters that were able to report of, know, and say, I'm seeing signs, this child, you know, isn't showing up, or I'm seeing, you know, this behavior or this physical evidence. or.

Kristi McVee (43:52.302)
Yep.

yes.

Rosalia Rivera (44:07.324)
So there was a drop in rates of reporting, not because kids weren't getting abused, but because those people who were watching, who were caring enough to say, you know, I need to report to, like they weren't reporting. And actually during that time rates of abuse, which we later found out had actually gone up.

Kristi McVee (44:11.406)
Mm.

Kristi McVee (44:22.147)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (44:27.106)
Yeah, of course, because they're in the environment.

Rosalia Rivera (44:29.88)
they were trapped with abusers. know, this was one of the things that I think everyone in the industry was feeling really desperate about. It's like these kids are not getting the help they need and now they're locked, you know, in spaces with their abusers. So it was really heartbreaking. But when the, you know, lockdown opened up, what we saw was that those children were able to finally report. And when they went back,

Kristi McVee (44:45.357)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (44:59.644)
to those spaces where there were mandated reporters who could say, you know, they were reporting and it was showing that the rates had gone back up. Now, did that mean that during the time that, you know, they weren't reporting, it wasn't happening? No, it was happening. And in fact, there were skyrocket rates that were happening online because offenders were getting access to kids.

Kristi McVee (45:08.408)
Hmm.

Kristi McVee (45:20.406)
Yeah, we know that.

Rosalia Rivera (45:22.958)
So there was a trickle effect to this and we're seeing those ripple effects now even years later of how that peer to peer became increasing over the last five years since the pandemic in large part because of the online piece. So when people say, is it really that it was bad before or is it really, really bad now? Unfortunately, it is. The research, the data,

you know, is not lying to us. And in fact, what we are seeing particularly concerning is the peer-to-peer element is what is really concerning and what we should be paying attention to because those youth are going to go into adulthood and needing, you know, intervention so that they don't become repeat offenders as they go into adulthood.

Kristi McVee (45:56.013)
No.

Rosalia Rivera (46:19.322)
So it's really important that we are talking to kids about you know body rights, boundaries, consent, not just for their own safety. Obviously we want kids to be safe, but we also want them to be safe to others. And that's another equally important reason why we need to talk about abuse prevention and body safety is I want, I have three boys. I want to make sure that they are going to go off into the world and be safe towards others.

Kristi McVee (46:34.925)
Yes.

Kristi McVee (46:48.034)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (46:48.078)
as well as being safe and protected themselves.

Kristi McVee (46:51.18)
Yeah, yeah. And look, in my experience, I've seen young people harm each other or harm their sibling or whatever. And that guilt that follows them around, it's not something that you can just forget and move on from like, well, made a mistake. It can be quite traumatic for both the child that was harmed and the child that harmed through no, and quite often with what we're seeing with online space is that

They're just following or doing what they've seen or that they've been coached to do by a predator or, you know, so there's it's not it's not fair to our kids if we don't teach them this because they are being left completely unaware both by adult offenders and by them, you know, their peers and

In actual fact, I've spoken about this a few years ago, my daughter came home and she's like, mom, I'm the only one who hasn't been sexually abused in my friendship group of six. they were only you know 15, 16 years old at that stage. And I was like, what? To me, that's not even the stats. The stats are one in three. So it was above that, but she was, and they were all different, really different stories, but it was like, okay.

Rosalia Rivera (48:03.44)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (48:12.66)
The thing is, that I don't know about you, but when you go to your kids sport or to like the school and you pick up your kids, do you get like parents going, hi, I just need to ask you a question. What should I do here? Cause I get it all the time constantly. Or I did when I was teaching and coaching my daughter's netball team and like, you know, at the school, when she got to high school, it was more so at sports and like,

because people wanna know this stuff, they just don't know where to get it. So I guess my next question and to wrap up is, if you're a parent and well, and most people on this podcast are, but for all the parents here, if you had one thing that you would say, look, this helped me and this is what I would do next, or what would it be?

Rosalia Rivera (48:39.302)
Yeah. Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (48:58.97)
I mean, the first thing is to get tools, is get conversation cards, get books, get access to resources that help you have these conversations. Because most people, like I said, didn't get this themselves when they were kids, so they don't know where to start. that can feel really daunting. And you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There are resources out there. And today, more than ever, there are amazing children's book authors

that focus on body safety, that have resources. There are books for parents that are teaching and talking about this. Like any piece of information that you can get your hands on is going to be helpful. But I wanna say like, don't overwhelm yourself. You know try to dive in and do this in a week and then...

Kristi McVee (49:28.846)
That's right.

Rosalia Rivera (49:53.306)
realize like, my God, this is too much and I don't know what to, like don't overwhelm yourself. Take it one day at a time. Do what you can, you know, a little bit every week. You know, you don't want your kid to be like, okay, mom, you know, I get it. Like, yeah, do we need to talk about this? Yeah, yeah. So just take it easy. I think, you know, do one step at a time and just get yourself some good tools.

Kristi McVee (50:07.03)
Yeah, like, come on, we've talked about this already. We've all seen it.

Rosalia Rivera (50:21.808)
They're such great resources. Like I said, your cards are really great too because even with a book, parents are like, okay, I read the book, now what? Okay, well, here's how to keep those conversations going, right? You don't have to always have the book, but having that as a good starting point and then keep it going. So that would be my recommendation is get some tools and get started. It's never too late no matter where you are in the game.

I think for parents who have older kids, if your child is like nine or 10 and you're like, all these resources are for little kids, well, get yourself some books that are for parents. One example is Kimberly King has a really great book that's for parents. Feather Burke Hour also is another one of my favorite. She has some great resources. Janeane Sanders also has a book for parents.

Kristi McVee (51:13.646)
I haven't heard of feather. Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (51:17.468)
There are people out there who are putting great work out there. I have a book that's gonna be coming out in 2027, so I'm hoping that will help too. you know, Just look for those resources that can help you get these conversations started, no matter where your kid is. And if you have teens, all the more important, you know, just find a way to have these icebreaker conversations. It might have to be, you know, about porn or sex, and that might feel extremely,

Kristi McVee (51:23.49)
Yay!

Rosalia Rivera (51:47.032)
awkward and uncomfortable, again, there are educators out there, sexual health educators that have resources to help you have those conversations. It's not something that you should wait too long or keep putting off.

Kristi McVee (52:03.008)
No, definitely not. No. And that's all really good. And I think books are where my saving grace when I was unsure, I was like, here's a book and do want help reading it. If she was able to read all we read it together or you know, like, hey, I saw this part, like, you know, and also just admitting, hey, I never had anyone talk about this stuff with me. I really, I really hope that you know, like parents realize it's not you can't stuff it up, you just have to start somewhere and, and, and your kids will go.

Rosalia Rivera (52:14.812)
Yeah.

Kristi McVee (52:33.038)
Oh, and like the most probably rewarding part is when they come to you and they go, Hey, mom, I'm not sure about this. Do you know, you know, even when it's like, Oh, mom, what's a 69 and you're like, or, you know, Hey, mom, I'm but you know, like, you go, Whoa, I wasn't didn't think you were ready to talk about that yet. But you know, like, it's okay to just not know as well. So

Rosalia Rivera (52:38.364)
Hmm.

Rosalia Rivera (52:44.868)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (52:52.796)
Yeah.

Rosalia Rivera (52:57.03)
Totally.

Kristi McVee (52:57.392)
I'm so grateful for you. And I'm so grateful we had this conversation. I hope we have many more and I know we will. But how do people find you if they want to check out what you're doing, where you are, what you're working on? Because I do actually have listeners from all over the world. So please share how they can find you.

Rosalia Rivera (53:13.264)
Yeah.

Yeah, thanks again, Kristy, for having me. I had a fun time chatting about this. I know this isn't the most easier, fun topic to talk about, but I think between two people who have known what can come out of this on the good side or the bad side, it's always great to talk to someone who understands and can push people into having these conversations in their own lives. So thank you again for having this podcast.

People can find me at consentparenting.com and also on sub stack. I'm I'm really moving away from social media I kind of have a love-hate relationship with it right now As I'm sure you can imagine yeah, so yeah people can find my sub stack which is where I write my blogs and and workshops and content so you can go to consentparenting.com to find all of it there

Kristi McVee (53:56.694)
Me too. It's hard.

Kristi McVee (54:10.572)
Awesome. Thank you so much. and I, yeah, like I said, I hope we have many more conversations and I hope that we see a tide. I think in our lifetime, we will see the tide turn a little bit, but you know, it's, it's can be very hard to see through the trees kind of thing. Like you see the forest through the trees because it just feels like, know, there's so much of this going on. There is, but I feel like you do that.

it is changing, like we are changing, it is making a difference one family at a time. so

Rosalia Rivera (54:43.48)
Absolutely. It's preventable. That's what the thing I want people to know is this is preventable. It isn't inevitable and every parent plays a role in that. So if we all band together, we can make that happen. So that's the vision.

Kristi McVee (54:59.918)
Thank you so much. Have a good rest of your day.

Rosalia Rivera (55:02.726)
Thank you, you too.