Kristi McVee (00:01.453)
Hello, hello, hello and welcome back. I am so excited because my good friend Sharon Collin from the founder of the Functional Family, someone I've been on her podcast, the ADHD Families podcast, finally is on my podcast. Welcome, Sharon.
Sharon Collon (00:18.008)
Thank you so much for having me, Kristi I'm so excited for our chat today.
Kristi McVee (00:20.435)
I know, I know and you know it's been a long time coming. I think I've asked you like a few times and then I had a break and life's just crazy especially this last few years has been nuts right? It's good fun, good fun, good fun. Look Sharon I think what I am really excited to talk about with you is that I've got a neurodiverse child and I kind of stumbled along I didn't realize
Sharon Collon (00:33.866)
is wild.
Kristi McVee (00:49.827)
how much I was doing that actually helped my own neurodiverse child. just adapted with her, had no idea she had neuro, you know, she was ADHD and autistic until she was 13 actually. But the warning signs were all there. I think I was just off with like, I just was like, that's my daughter. So I don't really, you know, didn't need a label, but it helped her when she got to high school. when she got to high school, that's when a lot of learning issues started. And she started realizing she wasn't.
the average student and stuff like that. So I think I wish I had have known more back when she was little, because first of all, I would have made it a lot easier. And that's what you do for parents, you make life easier. And so I wish I had known you back then. But we're all on our own journeys, right? So yeah, I'm just grateful that you're here and you've helped so many families. I think I read 40,000 families so far.
Sharon Collon (01:35.118)
No.
Sharon Collon (01:46.86)
Yeah, that was a couple of years ago. Like I stopped counting since then. So I, I'm so incredibly passionate about it because I have a neurodivergent family myself. And I remember when my first son was diagnosed, we really knew it was coming. Like he is very much my husband who is very hyperactive in profile and there was no mistaking it. But we got it handed this like really old photocopied pamphlet. And I was like,
Kristi McVee (01:49.613)
Ugh!
Kristi McVee (02:06.457)
Nya.
Kristi McVee (02:15.353)
you
Sharon Collon (02:16.746)
What the hell am going to do with this pamphlet? So what my mission became is learning everything about ADHD ADHD, distilling it down into practical steps so that I could avoid that crying in the car that I did when my first son was diagnosed because I just had no idea what to do. And we invested a lot in stuff that just didn't work and went down all these rabbit holes.
And what parents are crying out for is really not more information about ADHD. I feel like we've got some information, whether it's right or wrong, like who knows, thanks TikTok. But what we do need is really clear practical strategies. And that's the bit that's missing for a lot of families. I think that's why I love your work in particular, because you are giving people.
Really clear tools about what to do in this area. And it's probably one of the areas that is the most triggering for a lot of parents. Everyone's like, what do we do about this? So really excited to delve into that today.
Kristi McVee (03:08.077)
Yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (03:12.279)
Yeah, and I guess I was saying earlier before we started recording, like I said, I stumbled across things that helped. I knew that my daughter was quite... And the word our parents would say is like stubborn, defiant, obstinate. She would push back on me all the time. And so, I learned very early on if I turned getting changed into a game.
then she was willing to do it. If I made things fun, she was willing to do it. I can't believe I didn't know, like seriously. But I mean, she's my one and only, and my husband was ADHD ADHD. I laugh, right? So I'm 15, my husband's 15, we get together, he was very in trouble with school, getting kicked out of class. He was that typical hyperactive kid, right?
Sharon Collon (03:46.51)
Thank
Kristi McVee (04:03.915)
And I come along and I'm like, no more this, no more that you're going to buckle down. And obviously the reward was me. So he was like, yep, okay. And then when we moved out of home, used to go, we used to go shopping together for food once a week and he'd be like grabbing things, putting him in the shopping trolley and I'd be putting them back out. And it was like, it was like having a toddler. Like I literally like having a toddler. And I looked back on that time. I'm like, how did we not know? He didn't get diagnosed till 30.
Sharon Collon (04:26.238)
Yo!
Kristi McVee (04:33.601)
And so, yeah, and so I have been like, you know, obviously managing, managing is the word I would have used my husband for a long time, then my daughter comes along and yeah. So it's so funny that there's so many people out there probably stumbling along, trying to find ways to actually help their kids or help their families. And, you know, that crying in the car is a real thing because it can be really overwhelming for someone who just doesn't understand.
Sharon Collon (05:01.452)
Yep, definitely.
Kristi McVee (05:02.827)
Yeah. And so I guess for me, I want to hear more about exactly how, I mean, there's so many things going in my head right now. We know that neurodiverse children are more likely to be exploited when we're talking about my, you know, what I do in my job. I saw so many neurodiverse children being exploited, both in person and online. Sometimes they didn't even know they're being exploited or abused. And I guess I'd love to talk to you a bit about that.
before we move on to some of the strategies we can use with kids and other parts to this. So what do you think is the real, well, what do you know about like the exploitation of young people, especially our kids?
Sharon Collon (05:44.032)
Yeah, and let's be real about this. We know that there's been quite a lot of studies about child exploitation and dodgy things happening online. And we know that kids who are neurodivergent are much more likely to be exploited, to post images of themselves, to be bullied online, to make some very interesting decisions when it comes to online behavior. And there's a few reasons why.
we've got the impulsivity aspect of it. So we perhaps we post a photo of ourselves without really thinking about what that is or what that's going to do. And we do it too quickly and then we can't take it back. And that can be an aspect of it. We've also got some different reward pathways in the brain that predators can exploit essentially. So they're offering their attention and
Kristi McVee (06:38.958)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (06:40.11)
And it feels powerful and it also feels rewarding. And so they can, they definitely know about that and they're definitely exploiting that. And it can feel very for the, for the victim. can feel like motivating at the start and you know, like it's, it's dopamine driven and, it can feel really exciting. And of course, especially if they think that they're talking to another child who really wants to be their friend, you know, this can start off very innocent and it can go dark very fast. Next we've got
Kristi McVee (06:43.907)
Yep.
Sharon Collon (07:08.556)
difficulty reading social cues. This is a really common thing when it comes to kids who are neurodivergent. We miss those social cues. perhaps they're not doing well with friendships in real life. Online can, or what we would say is they need support developing skills for social cues. And I think that like when I did social skills training as part of my ADHD credentialing,
I actually think that everyone needs to do social skills training. I actually listened to it. It's not just neurodivergent people. I actually listened to it and I was like, Oh my God, this could have saved me so much heartache in the school grounds. Like being able to know this stuff was just so important. But we know that they're kind of misfiring on the social cues things a bit. And perhaps their school ground conversations or their friends circle isn't really, it's a bit of a misfire there.
Kristi McVee (07:35.789)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (07:43.481)
Ha ha ha ha
Kristi McVee (07:48.983)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (08:02.702)
And so online feels safer. You don't have to watch for body language. You can be there. And then obviously most people are very good at it. Our beautiful kids are very good at gaming and bits and pieces. And you don't have to worry about reading all the subtleties and everything. It's all very straight.
So this can impair a person's ability to assess risks in social situations. So we're really into the game and we're not quite reading where the risks are. The next thing is rejection sensitivity dysphoria. This is absolutely huge. And I'm just prefacing this to parents that if you don't know a lot about RSD, please, please, please go and do some research on it.
Kristi McVee (08:36.429)
Yep.
Sharon Collon (08:46.348)
I have not met a person with ADHD that doesn't have RSD and we need to know about it. And we definitely, this is a lot of what my work is coming around to at the moment because children with ADHD often experience intense rejection sensitivity. So it can feel like physical pain and...
Kristi McVee (09:00.76)
Yep.
Yep.
Sharon Collon (09:04.585)
It's perceived and real rejection. So we know that there's a whole lot of microaggressions and things like that that happen for people with ADHD, like little micro rejections all the time. But then we become hypersensitive to it and we almost perceive it when it isn't there. Yeah, so a child who feels unseen or misunderstood, this is why they're feeling like they don't fit in. Then they get online and they encounter someone who listens and praises and offers their attention.
Kristi McVee (09:17.589)
isn't happening. Yep.
Kristi McVee (09:25.465)
Hmm.
Sharon Collon (09:32.502)
And grooming really begins with danger. Like it doesn't start off as like, you know, as, as a dangerous conversation.
Kristi McVee (09:38.431)
No, it's just someone having a conversation, two people having conversation and like getting along.
Sharon Collon (09:43.726)
and they're paying these kids attention, right? And it begins with just a meeting a need and the pattern of giving and withdrawing attention keeps a child emotionally engaged. So for a child who's neurodivergent, this can feel really safe and can feel also like it's meeting a need that perhaps the real world's feeling a bit threatening and it can be a bit of a tricky one to navigate. So we know that those things make kids with ADHD and autism.
Kristi McVee (09:53.571)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (09:58.394)
Hmm.
Sharon Collon (10:11.49)
way more likely to be targeted online. And we just need to be aware of it. I mean, it's not all doomsday. We've got some things that we can do to support our kids. The other one that we just, we did touch on there is that peer rejection. So a lot of our kids, think there was a study where it was saying by year three, that kids with ADHD, that I think was 70 % of kids with ADHD, I'll have to check this stat for you, don't have a single close friend. Okay, so.
We've got kids that do not have a safe social circle and we've got them perceiving rejection all over the place and the internet is now feeling like our safe place to be ourselves. So this isolation makes them particularly vulnerable to other people and predators online. So we just want to be aware of these things because once we have the information, we can actually do something about it and empower parents so that we can spare our beautiful kids some of the hurt that they might experience.
Kristi McVee (11:10.745)
I just feel so terrible like the rejection sensitivity is for you. My daughter, 18 years old is still feeling it. And the one thing that I have constantly reminded her over the years is, is it perceived or is it real? So it's one of the things that I ask all the time. I do you think, and I never say, I don't think you're actually, I don't.
think you're actually seeing it the way it is, I just say, hey, have you considered, is this a real rejection or is this a real hurt? Or is it something you're perceiving because you feel you're a bit sensitive today or you're a bit tired or just trying to get her to think through whether it's actually a rejection or not. Because I know in over the years, even with myself, she's felt rejected when I've been busy or I've been whatever's happening.
know, It can be really hard for them to perceive whether they're actually seeing something that's happening or is it just, I'm feeling internally, I'm feeling a little bit, you know, sad or upset or triggered or overwhelmed and am I seeing it as it is?
Sharon Collon (12:19.074)
Well, you're absolutely doing the right thing. Like number one, we've got to like be their soft place to land about this. The world is spiky for kids who are neurodivergent. And then we do need to challenge it sometimes because I like to reframe RSD. So I reframe it from the words rejection sensitivity dysphoria, because that sounds very serious and not, you know, like it just sounds like another disorder really. And we don't want, I don't want them to think about that sort of stuff.
Kristi McVee (12:25.784)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (12:42.808)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (12:45.866)
I actually reframe it, and this is based on William Dodson's work on RSD, is reframing it as a radical safety detector. So your body is working overtime to keep you safe. We know that kids with ADHD, their nervous system is heightened. it just, it just is constantly raised all the time. They're checking if they're safe, they're scanning for safety all the time. So we want to acknowledge it, that what they're going through is quite tricky.
Kristi McVee (12:57.752)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (13:13.366)
and then ask for evidence. Okay, so is that person really angry with you? You know, have they given you other signs that they're angry with you? know, have they given you other signs that they're leaving you out? And it might be a real rejection and then we need to get to catch them. Or it might be that we're feeling a little bit vulnerable on that day. A great one to look at is tone. So I use, always use my poor husband as examples for this, but he, can send a text message to my husband, which I perceive as neutral. So it'll be like, hey,
Kristi McVee (13:20.493)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (13:26.007)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (13:42.829)
Yep.
Sharon Collon (13:43.586)
going to be late, start without me. To me, that's a neutral interaction. Doesn't it's not happy, not sad. It's it's just info, right? He reads it like this. Hey, gonna be late, start without me.
Kristi McVee (13:54.709)
Ha ha!
You know what? I'm just thinking about my poor husband.
Sharon Collon (14:01.688)
So my neutral interaction is received with tone. Okay, so this can happen in the world of SMS, in the world of online messages. We can't read those cues and we automatically, because we like to think of black and white, like good or bad, and we go to extremes of thinking, we're automatically gonna perceive that that's a rejection. And so we just need to challenge those sometimes. And if it is a real rejection and there often is,
then we need to be there to support them for it and work out what their next step is. Because we definitely don't want that impulse, the power of the pause is a great strategy for ADHD when we're not sure, just don't do anything, right? Like sit. But what we want to do is make sure we actually challenging is this, do we have evidence that this is an actual rejection? So we've got to slow it, the actual key is slowing it down. We just need to it down.
Kristi McVee (14:39.0)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (14:50.615)
Yeah, and I've done that as well over the years, like whether it's friendship groups, teachers, now she's employed and working, you know, like I've gone, okay, what is the cues that you were given? I don't say it like that, but you know, what did they say? What did they do? What was the tone? Okay, yeah, I would perceive it like that or, I'm not sure. You know, maybe just see next time you interact with them if they're still.
And like you said, a lot of the time it is real and they are perceiving it right. But at the same time, sometimes if we're feeling vulnerable and a little bit off, I mean, I don't believe I have ADHD or autism, but I even from my childhood trauma, because of trauma, have spent a lot of my years trying to perceive whether someone's upset with me or not.
because that was part of my punishments as a kid is everyone was angry. So for me, and so when you're speaking, I'm thinking, you know, I've spent a long time in my life trying to perceive if people are upset or not. And so it's kind of like that in that you're constantly thinking people are upset with you based on their tone. It could be them having a bad day, but I have the knowledge, the wisdom, the experience to go, well, that's kind of their problem. Like if they're upset, that's on them. Whereas someone with ADHD,
is not going to feel like that. They're going to feel like, my gosh, they hate me. They don't like me. I've done something wrong. You know, I'm wrong. That's what it generally comes down to, doesn't it?
Sharon Collon (16:19.822)
Yeah, and it's that black hole, it's going to that all or nothing approach, the black or white thinking again, like, we just tend to go to the extremes quite quickly. But it is a skill, right? Like RSD is there. And I reckon, like, there's a beautiful Elizabeth Gilbert quote that talks about anxiety. And she's like, think of anxiety, like you're a crazy aunt in the back of a car, right? Like she's in the car and she's gonna say stuff and you're like, my God, Aunty Beryl, like just quiet in the back, right?
Kristi McVee (16:47.682)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (16:49.346)
She's in the car, but don't let her drive. Like it's okay for her to be there and in the car, but she's not allowed to drive. So I kind of think of RSD a little bit like that, right? Like Auntie Beryl in the back of the car and it's there and it's got a purpose to keep us safe, but we don't let it drive. So if we let it drive, that is where, you we just start feeling more isolated. Like it's got, it kind of leaves us with nowhere to go.
Kristi McVee (16:54.382)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:00.044)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:06.862)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (17:16.046)
And so we want to have some really good strategies around RSD. that some of that is, is naming it being able to name what it is. And some of that is being able to challenge it a little bit. And some of it is actually being able to, to text back and just go, Hey, um, just checking. you angry at me about something like you are able to do that? And most people will be like, like, and once you start doing that, it gives you more evidence that everything's okay, that it is safe.
Kristi McVee (17:31.682)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:35.415)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:41.593)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (17:42.742)
And so don't be afraid to challenge RSD as it comes up for you, but you can actually just go, Hey, I just, I just saw when you were talking to me, then your body language was a bit closed off. Are we good? Like you're allowed to say that and just call it out in the moment. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:47.246)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (17:56.034)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I guess that that is why our young people can be exploited. One of the many reasons why they get exploited is that need to like they don't want people to reject them and they're not being rejected online. So someone online or someone who's harming them in person, right? So when you when a child's being groomed in person, they're being love bombed by this person, they're being made the center of attention, they're being made to feel amazing. So a child with ADHD or neurodivergent
Sharon Collon (18:18.99)
you
Kristi McVee (18:28.433)
will go, my gosh, finally, I found someone who care like really loves me. And sadly, it's fake in order to abuse them, right? So this person's doing it to abuse them. That's why I guess, as parents, as adults, as people who are watching, like when we're on the periphery of this, you have to pay attention to what a first of all, those those vulnerable kids, like our ADHD, neurodiverse kids, we need to be paying attention to who's giving them attention.
Sharon Collon (18:58.276)
Mm, mm, yep.
Kristi McVee (19:00.397)
Yeah. And because they are very vulnerable. And like I said at the very beginning, I was constantly investigating kids who are neurodiverse. And yeah, no, just, and it never surprised me, at the time I didn't put two and two together of why. And I just know looking at my own family situation, which I understand way more now than I did when I was a police officer, but in my own family situation, I knew that
Sharon Collon (19:08.91)
Yeah, I think, sorry, you go, you go.
Kristi McVee (19:28.759)
Neurodiverse kids, they do feel rejection really strongly. They do feel really, you know, like that no one gets them. So it's like ultimate fuel for a predator.
Sharon Collon (19:39.394)
Yeah, it sure is. And I think this is one area where parents really struggle to be able to have these conversations. Like we can talk about a lot of stuff with our kids. Like we are pretty good at talking about this, but this is the area where we falter a little bit. We're not quite sure what to do about this conversation. So it would be a really cool thing to give some parents.
Kristi McVee (19:47.991)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (20:06.9)
Mm-hmm.
Sharon Collon (20:07.5)
and practical tools about this one because I think that we get a bit stuck.
Kristi McVee (20:11.211)
Okay, well, tell me tell me tell me where you get stuck and let's see how we can work through it together because I think combining our powers for good. We can both give parents some some tips and hints on how to do this because I have only what I know works with my child and with all of the kids I've spoken to and it's funny right my kid was so much harder to cheat like to talk to than any other child same with your kids are probably you know talking to other kids is so much easier right so
Sharon Collon (20:16.782)
Well, yeah.
Sharon Collon (20:40.558)
See ya.
Kristi McVee (20:41.247)
It's so much easier. And but mind you, I just I don't know, somewhere along the line, I just didn't, I stopped worrying about what I was saying to her and how I was saying it and just got on with it. But that was from practice. So we have to practice this stuff. So let's let's work out how we can have these conversations. So which one would you like to tackle first between us?
Sharon Collon (21:02.008)
Well, think one of the things, like let's set up this conversation first because, I also want to preface this by saying that parents, shouldn't expect that this is a one and done conversation. Like this is something that we weave into. And I mean, a lot of ADHD parenting conversations, like it's not a one and done. Like we don't have the conversation about the birds and the bees and then we tick it off and we go, well, they got it. Like, actually.
Kristi McVee (21:12.511)
Yeah, no, definitely not.
Kristi McVee (21:26.872)
Yeah
Sharon Collon (21:27.636)
unhinged things of my childhood. Like when we did puberty and all of the sexual talk, my parents took me to a library with all my schoolmates and there was like a slideshow about reproductive thing and I was just sitting at the library at night with all my friends and then we just never talked about it again.
Kristi McVee (21:49.25)
That is unhinged. Mind you, mine was no better. Well, unhinged birds and bees conversation. So I got my first period at 13. I'd had a, you know, like I knew what it was through puberty education in year five and six, right? Or year six and seven. And then I got my first period at like around my birthday in year eight. So 13 years old. And I went to my stepmother and said, hey, I've got my period. And she's like, right.
Sharon Collon (21:53.742)
What's yours?
Kristi McVee (22:18.585)
took me in the car, didn't talk about it, just took me straight in the car down to the shop, bought me some phone books. No, they were pads, but they were like this, they were like this thick, the old school ones with the belt. And I mean, we're talking the late in the early nineties, there was no such, but she bought the ones that she bought. And then she just said, don't go rooting every Tom, Dick and Harry. That was it. That was my whole sex education.
until I got into year 10 and then we were talking in school, year 10 in school, and we had to sit in the auditorium and they showed us pictures of chlamydia and warts on penises and all of this stuff. like, who, I mean, seriously, like we can do better than that for our kids. And I personally, from my own experience with my own child, know that I would rather be the one to help guide my child to know exactly, because I...
you know, a lot of young people, a lot of kids say, today we've got pornography, which is ready on hand. And again, that's an issue for young kids and neurodiverse kids. But the thing is, this that so many young people I know, and so many people I know that never had anyone to talk to, and they were put into situations they never should have been put in. They were in dangerous situations. They were sexually assaulted because they didn't know they had rights to say no.
Sharon Collon (23:20.909)
Hmm?
Kristi McVee (23:40.814)
You know, even when I was writing my book about consent, I was thinking, oh my gosh, like there's so many scenarios that I could write about from my own personal experience because I had no idea I can say no to anything. And that's the problem. that, that we're leaving our kids up to chance to not being sexually abused or assaulted or traumatized because we are too scared to talk to them. So yeah, that's.
Sharon Collon (23:53.526)
Hmm.
Sharon Collon (24:07.982)
I mean, we are a product of the early 90s, right? Like there was just some wacky stuff going on out there and we can do better. Like this is a beautiful opportunity to empower our kids with practical tools for this. I mean, we know when we're talking about setting up this conversation, I think it's really important. So we know it's not a one and done. It needs to happen repeatedly often. But what happens when you sit a...
child or any child down, but I'm going to specify this for neurodivergent kids. When you sit them down for a serious conversation, what are they thinking? They think they're in trouble, right? Like, so we're not going to do it in a sit down, serious conversation, right? We're not going to have this conversation. And that's what we want to do. We want to go, Hey buddy, can you come here? We're going to have a, we're going to have a serious chat. And then the neurodivergent kid goes,
Kristi McVee (24:40.587)
trouble. I think that.
Sharon Collon (24:58.056)
oh my gosh, they finally found out about the lolly wrappers in the toilet. you know, like, they totally like going to go somewhere else and they're not going, they're going to fight a flight and they're not going to hear anything you say from that point on. So we're not going to do it that way. What we're going to do, and this, this applies to a lot of serious conversations and coaching conversations with your kids who are neurodivergent, or if they're prone to a little bit of anxiety, we know that the, especially the ADHD brain is largely an anxious brain, right? So we're going to use side door strategies and this works very well for
Kristi McVee (24:58.503)
shit.
Sharon Collon (25:27.874)
therapy as well. Most kids who are neurodivergent are not comfortable with front door. So if you're knocking on that front door going, let's have a serious conversation, they're not comfortable with it. Same with when you're having other serious coaching conversations as well. So we go side door. So what does a side door strategy look like? Well, we go in the side a little bit. So we might be doing a job. So we might be like, as we're making the bed, we're asking questions, what would you do if, what would you do if, right?
And you don't, I don't ever say, you know, has anyone at your school been talking to someone online? you, that, feels like a, like it's, it's like a kind of accusation threatening question. So I was just like, what, like it's a hypothetical. It's what would you do if this happened? And if you are going to ask a direct question about something that's going on, talk about their friends. Don't say, has anyone ever done this to you? Just has it, have any of your friends or you can even do this for school conversations. Like,
Any of your friends feeling stressed about the tests coming up? You know, and often you'll get their response if you're asking about people in their class or their friends. So side door is better. So be doing something else. Be patting the dog, be washing the dog. Be like, I don't know, dogs are great. So, you know, like anything else, like you're unstacking the dishwasher, you're doing something else. So they're not having to give you that full eye contact because that is a front door thing going on. And that's why when we're talking about therapies and things, equine therapy, like all of those things are really great. Side door.
Kristi McVee (26:50.922)
anytime.
Sharon Collon (26:53.454)
They're all about side door, right? And so we also want to be careful about how we position ourselves when it comes to screens, because screens are here to stay and I am not anti-screens by any, but can I say this, that the number one topic that people bring to ADHD parent coaching, which is what I do all day, every day is screen time. So it is causing the most amount of friction in households.
Kristi McVee (26:55.117)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (27:15.767)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (27:18.882)
But I just want to be careful with how we position ourselves. And I want to see if you agree with this. We don't position ourselves against screens. As parents, if you put yourself, you against your child, right? So we like, the bloody screen time, I'm taking away the iPad, all of this stuff like that. It's you against your child, right? So they perceive you against screens as you against them. So what we've...
Kristi McVee (27:41.942)
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and I'm not anti-screen either. I am intentional screen time, intentional learning, intentional, you know, there's got to be some boundaries rules and like some
Sharon Collon (27:49.4)
Love
Kristi McVee (27:56.85)
offence around it because it's not a safe environment for kids if not and and they are going and it's not hey okay I've put up the boundary I've put like device restrictions in place time you know time limits in place I've got all of this stuff I get here just do whatever you want whilst you're on there no everything has to be for me until my child got to a certain age it was everything was vetted I you know I set up that what's the word I'm looking for
I set up the expectation from the very get-go. This is what we do. I'm going to look at what you're doing. I'm gonna look at what games, and if they're age appropriate. We only play age appropriate games, unfortunately. There was some little bits of, for me, was, if if someone came over and they wanted to play something like Minecraft, for instance, it'd be like, Minecraft is free for all for three hours, but it's gotta be in the lounge room.
And you know, like, so there was just this because I knew enough to know these were the things that mattered. There's also conversations around it. Like, you know, it's not like, And I always positioned it as we're a team, we work together because like you just said, if it's you against the child, no, buddy, like it's
my job's to protect you, I'm actually working with you. I'm here to make sure you're safe on there. I'm here to make sure you have a good time on there. I don't want you to be, know, anyone to do anything to harm you, et cetera. And a lot of kids, and especially a lot of neurodiverse kids, they have a high sense of confidence when they think that they, I know, you don't need to tell me. Like, yeah, you might know, but I wanna make sure you know. I just need you to show me that you know this. And then I'm gonna let you have fun. So.
Sharon Collon (29:38.51)
100.
Kristi McVee (29:42.273)
Let's get on with it.
Sharon Collon (29:43.49)
I think, you know, I don't know if like for the parents of kids with ADHD are listening, like, have you ever noticed that they don't like being told what to do? have you ever? So if you say one way and you lean and you give them something to push against, they're going to push, right? Like all my family have oppositional defiance disorder, although I don't love that tag to be fair. But if you, if you push against something, they are going to push and they're going to push back and they're not even going to
Kristi McVee (29:51.001)
What are you talking about? They love it!
Sharon Collon (30:13.538)
Be sure why, right? They're just going to push. So we don't want to give them something to push against here. So align yourself as a teammate for these kinds of conversations. So really put yourself like, I want to make sure that, and when we're talking about screen time conversations, ask them what an appropriate amount is, really coach them about it, right? So if they'll, they'll throw off a bogus answer first. So I've got eight hours, right? And then you go, you negotiate it down to what you think is appropriate, right? You get it down and then I want you to give them extra.
Kristi McVee (30:15.149)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (30:43.734)
So they get it down to two hours or whatever it is and then go, you know what, because I know that you're gonna be super responsible with these and I just have so much faith in you, we're gonna go extra half an hour. So that's just showing them that, yeah, you're gonna have this conversation, but you trust them as well. But we wanna make sure that we're very aligned on like, what are we against? We're not against screens and we're not against our child, we're against the.
Kristi McVee (30:43.767)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (30:56.887)
You trust them.
Sharon Collon (31:10.454)
silly people on the internet that are doing bad things. That's what we're against. So position yourself as a teammate against that because it'll help you have these conversations and help you like help your child come and tell you because most
Kristi McVee (31:23.137)
Yeah, I was about to say what I found is, is if you and your child are working together against it, they are the first people and you're not overreacting when something happens like you're going, wow, thanks for coming and telling me like, that's amazing. Look, you look at what you did, you picked up on it. Like you picked up on this person being inappropriate and grooming. They're like, they will tell you and you'll get sick of being told like, look at this person. Look at this person. but you'll also realize that your child
Sharon Collon (31:31.918)
you
Kristi McVee (31:51.618)
And it's a twofold thing, right? You realize that your child can pick it up. they're actually, you've actually taught them how to identify grooming.
Sharon Collon (32:00.302)
And they're terrified that in that first instance that you're going to take it away. So don't do it. That's why I love that you praise them straight away. You were like, my gosh, you picked that up. How clever are you? Amazing. Thank you for letting me know. And then go into your cupboard, sit down in the dark and just scream and freak out there, but don't do it in front of your children.
Kristi McVee (32:05.793)
Yeah, you have to work with them.
Kristi McVee (32:16.151)
Yeah
Kristi McVee (32:20.277)
I know Exactly I say the same things. In fact, you said so many things that I use in my own like, practice and teaching and stuff. So we're very aligned. But I think the other thing that I would say is, is I wouldn't be scared if your kids are picking it up before it happens. And I wouldn't even be scared if it's happened. I know that it seems traumatic to think, my gosh, my child has shared a an intimate photo with some stranger on the internet, right? In the day and age of AI.
they can create photos from anything. And once upon a time we used to go, like it was the end of the world. Today we can repair that and say, look, it was a myth. You know, cause one thing I do ask parents to ask, you know, when they find that their kid has shared an intimate image is like, you need to get to the reason why they did it. If you, Before you freak out and before, like, if you can control your emotions enough, ask your child, what were you feeling in that moment when you sent that image?
Because if we can work out what they were feeling and they can remember what that feeling feels like, when they feel it again, they will think twice before they do it. Because they won't want to feel the shame, guilt and the rest of it, right? So just remember, like from my perspective as a detective and stuff, like, yeah, it sucks and it's horrible. And yes, it's against the law and it's illegal, but fear actually makes it worse. They go inwards, they hide it from us. They do it again anyway, because they don't understand what's actually going on for them.
emotionally and you know their feelings etc if they can understand their feelings i was looking for i wanted to feel like someone wanted me i wanted to feel i felt lonely in that moment someone was making me feel good and when they understand that this person was actually doing that to abuse them groom them whatever because you know the the band-aid has to come off once it's done right so you have to go hey well you know they use that against us they make us feel like that because
they want us to do what they want us to do and then they then abuse us. And so it's, you you're human. It's okay that you made that mistake because our kids are learning. And unfortunately, some of this stuff is really tough to learn.
Sharon Collon (34:30.722)
Hmm. I love that you said those things because it really is very good advice. Like this, this is, our kids are going to slip up. Like they're going to make, if there's one thing I've learned, as growing up, we're going to make some very interesting choices some of the time and it's all learning. And like, I have the saying, like, love the Marie Folio saying like everything's figure out of all, right? So like no matter what decision my kids make and
be aware that we've made some very, very interesting decisions. I'm just like, as long as you tell me, like we can figure it out together. You don't get in trouble if you tell the truth. Like we just, work it out together, right? And so I like that saying because we have, when you have black or white thinking, you go to catastrophizing very quick. You're never gonna recover from this. This is like, you you're gonna be in so much trouble. So we need to just help them pull back from that, that everything's recoverable. Like there's not that many decisions in life.
Kristi McVee (35:08.195)
Yeah, same.
Sharon Collon (35:28.6)
that you can't come back from in some way or form. So we need to just make sure that they know that this doesn't affect our love for them. This doesn't affect what we are, that they are a part of the family, that they're accepted here. This is just a little blip. It's okay.
Kristi McVee (35:45.272)
Yeah. And unfortunately, a lot of the experiences or a lot of the things that I've seen over the years is that children, young people, you know, they don't have the wisdom or experience to know that it's just a moment in time and it's not going to last their lifetime. And I've got to say, you know, police officers society, we've been done a really bad job of making kids think that.
once it's on the internet, it's there forever. Yes, it might be, but guess what? We've got AI now that's making things that look like it's real. we can literally, and I'm not saying to excuse, you know, we don't want kids sharing their intimate images if possible, because it's out there and we've got no control over it. But if it happens, and if your child slips up and...
I got told by this beautiful little five-year-old the other day, there's no such thing as a naughty kid, there's only kids that are learning. And I was like, she must have heard that so many times by her mum, because she would say, and her mum was like, she made a joke, the little girl made a joke because she said, her mum said, there's no such thing as naughty kids, only kids are learning. And this boy in her class was like, well, he must have, he's got to learn a lot.
because he was being obnoxious or obviously interrupting the class. you know, and the thing is, this that our kids are learning, it is recoverable. The thing that's not recoverable in my mind, the thing that does the most trauma and hurt harm to kids is when they are left alone to tackle these things on their own, when they don't feel love and support, when they feel like that they've literally left.
to their own devices they've got no one to turn to. And that this is the end of the world for them. And that's when they self harm. That's when they do the unthinkable. And we've seen young people do that. So in my mind, nothing, like you said, it's all fixable or it's never the end of the world. our kids won't know that because they don't have the wisdom and experience to know that if we don't keep telling them that.
Sharon Collon (37:48.654)
I mean, this is hard for parents because we weren't modeled this, right? Like not a lot of our parents modeled this. I think about us growing up, you had a big feeling, something big happened, go to your room. Go to your room and sort that out, right? Like that's how we were raised. We were raised by exclusion. So we had a big feeling, something awkward happened, go to your room, right? So get away from me. So, and we averted, the parents took away eye contact, which is the very thing our kids are seeking for safety. So they're seeking out our body turning towards them, right?
Kristi McVee (38:08.696)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (38:18.552)
So we turn away when things are getting too much for us. So we avoid the situation with our bodies. So we've got to be careful about all those things that we're doing because when things get tricky, when things get tough, we turn towards it. We need to turn towards it, not turn away.
Kristi McVee (38:34.263)
It's triggering though for us, our generation, because we got treated like that. So that's what we naturally do without even thinking. And I'm just, you just made me think about some of the cringe moments that I, if I could redo is where I've gone. But I got better at it. Like I got better at saying, hey, I just need a moment to regulate myself. know that you, Please take me not hugging you or helping you regulate right now as, and she was older.
as me rejecting you. I'm not rejecting you. I just need a moment to regulate myself so I can help you. And that's only in the last five or six years, right? But before that, I would be like, go to your room. And it's so tragic that that's what we were taught. And you're right. We walked away thinking the world hates us. Everyone hates us.
Sharon Collon (39:23.598)
Hmm. It's hard, I love that conversation you had. You can actually say, I'm a sensory avoiding person, right? There's so much sensory stuff coming at me in this house. I get to a point in the day where I'm touched out. There's just no more. So I have to say, I absolutely am going to hear you out and you are safe here. I just have to go to the bathroom and then I'll be back in five minutes and we will deal with.
like this situation, I'll help you and I love you, but I'm going to the bathroom, right? And so you're absolutely allowed to slow yourself down, buy yourself time, go and do fake wheeze, whatever you need to do, like just have that moment so you can come up. Because I noticed that when I shoot from the hip, when I go straight into reactive parenting mode, what comes out of my mouth is usually wrong. Like it is venom. So if I go straight for, yeah, like if I'm not able to regulate, I'm like, what did you do that for?
Kristi McVee (39:52.301)
Thank you.
Kristi McVee (39:58.989)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (40:04.419)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (40:10.253)
Yeah, same.
Kristi McVee (40:17.977)
Alright.
Sharon Collon (40:18.082)
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
what it works. So The more you do it, the better it gets, the easier it is to deploy and the better it is for everyone. One of the things that you talked about before is using, like having those sort of boundaries before, like obviously we still wanna use parental controls. You talked about your kids using, playing Minecraft in the lounge room. I think that is a really key one to highlight here, like put them in the common areas, don't send them up to their rooms.
One thing I did want to say there is like the headphone situation, right?
Kristi McVee (41:13.685)
yeah, no, was on loudspeaker. I had to deal with the noise, but I wanted to hear who was on those calls. And I don't care about the swearing. I just want to hear, because kids do swear in these games. I just wanted to know that there was no strange weirdo trying to groom my kid.
Sharon Collon (41:16.226)
Yes. I tell you.
Sharon Collon (41:30.67)
That's, I think we need to flag this because we need to take away those headphones because the kids think they get in trouble for swearing. I don't care about that, right? Like, yeah, like let's, let's just be real, like kids swear. And also, I'm just going to preface this by kids, kids also vape, right? Like every parent that comes to me and goes like, Oh Mike, it's so lucky that my kids aren't vaping. mean, everyone else in their classes, but my kid isn't. I'm like, Oh, your kids probably vape.
Kristi McVee (41:35.907)
Yeah.
I don't care about swearing.
Kristi McVee (41:43.767)
We all did it.
Thanks.
Kristi McVee (41:53.923)
They're just very good at, they're very good at hiding it.
Sharon Collon (41:56.846)
Just take it for what it is, right? Like your kid's probably gonna swear online and that sucks, but like it's not the end of the world. What we're trying to do is ensure safety here. So put it through the speakers. And then because I am sensory avoidant and that noise drives me bananas and those, like those conversations, honestly, you could just, they could bury me. Yeah, why? And the boring. Yes.
Kristi McVee (42:18.275)
And the squealing, the squealing on Fortnite, when they get, like they start screaming like they're being murdered.
Sharon Collon (42:24.844)
So loop earplugs, get those loop earplugs in your ears, but have it in the common area. And then also research the games that your kids are playing. Like we just need a little bit to put it into chat GPT, just check what it is, like check if it's okay. And in that coaching conversation, we just want to be curious, not confrontational. Remember side door, side door, side door. Like just be curious about what's going on for your child because we just, I think we're messing up here because we feel a bit out of our depths.
Kristi McVee (42:28.675)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (42:34.306)
I always did that.
Sharon Collon (42:54.584)
Like I don't know about you, but my kids can run rings around me tech wise. Like they are so clever. And so I feel already on the back foot. And so when these conversations need to happen, I'm already a little bit on edge because they know more about me. Yep. Go.
Kristi McVee (42:54.979)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (42:58.871)
yeah, of course.
Kristi McVee (43:07.577)
Do you know what my tips are? My tip is to once, so yes, Chat GPT but commonsensemedia.org is, so commonsensemedia.org is a really good website, mainly because it's got parental reviews and children reviews. So the kids review it as well and write their reviews. But second to that is if I had approved a game, I, you know, maybe not in the first use, but afterwards when.
Sharon Collon (43:14.391)
more yes.
Kristi McVee (43:34.222)
when Like she's just chilling out playing the game, I would sit next to her, lay next to her wherever she was. And I would go, what are you doing that game? how do you talk to people? Like, are you playing with anyone you know? And I would just be curious about how it works, show me what it does. Now and again, I would give it a go myself and I'd give it, you know, 20 minutes of my time and just really, and then while she's playing and sort of distracted,
I would be able to go, Oh, so do you ever find anyone that you don't know in this game? Has anyone like, can they message you in this game? you know, and so, I mean, most of the time when she was under 13, she wasn't allowed to have those games anyway. That was part of my rules. Like it was never a multiplayer game with messaging capability. But when she got over that even still up until a few years ago, I was checking. I was like, Oh, so can anyone message you? Like, is it just anyone?
What you, do you ever see anything that makes you feel uncomfortable here? Yeah, okay, cool. Like that's cool. And like, I never was like, my gosh, I never told her off. I was just like, yeah, cool, right. What do you reckon could happen if this happened? Do you reckon kids like, you know, and one of the things that I, I'm really keen on showing kids is how to critically think things through. And so I don't, didn't, again, didn't realize I was doing it with my daughter, but I always used to ask questions like,
Why do you think people want to do that? Like, why do think people like this game? Why do you, in gaming sense, but even in relationship sense, like I used to say to my daughter, say for instance, she was having a fight with a friend or a friend was trying to be a bit more controlling because that's, know, kids have those relationship challenges, right? Where one child's trying to dominate the whole group or control the whole group and you're not allowed to talk to that person and you're not allowed to, and I would be like, literally in the back of my mind, I'm like,
Coercive control, let's teach her about this. So I'd be like, why do think people want to control other people? Do you think it's okay that they control their friends? Do you think that it's, and so I was literally trying to get her to think, okay, that person's, it's not okay. And then I would always finish off with, you know, your body's your body, your rights, you're allowed to do whatever you want. No one's allowed to control you. No one's allowed to tell you how to do things.
Kristi McVee (45:57.466)
If anyone does, then that's not okay. that's, and this was in friendship groups at eight years old. So come her first relationship and someone and boyfriend's trying to tell her what to do. I'm like, she's like, yeah, right, mate. Like get, you know, get to the back of the line. And so it was really interesting to me that I was doing this because I have my experience as a police officer, but it works so well in that.
the more you challenge your children to think critically, to look at their social media feeds if they're on social media or to look at what they're consuming. Like, why do you like that? Why do you like watching this show? What's in this show? What do you... do you think kids could do that? One of the shows that I, that during COVID, she was only 12 at the time, I watched Sex Education with her and people were like, my God, you watched Sex Education? Yes, we fast forwarded the sex scenes because at the time, the first season, I was like...
I'm not ready to watch sex scenes with my 12 year old, but the conversations that came from that, know, there was a situation with drinking and, know, sex. and drinking. I was like, you know, do you think that kids who drink, you know, do you think that someone who drinks is able to make a proper judgment call when they're, you know, intoxicated? Do you think that they actually could give consent? And so I was having these conversations from movies, videos, songs.
All of these conversations over the time. And I feel that the more interested we get and the more we challenge things, like it's not about saying no to them. It's about questioning, okay, what do you like about that? What do you think that you get from that? Like, what's it gonna help you with? Do you think that that might be something that you can use later on? Like there's so many ways that you can go around this and help your young person.
Sharon Collon (47:45.164)
I like em, something that you said earlier too about role playing because a lot of kids who are neurodivergent, like they learn, they don't learn necessarily by people telling them what to do, but they do learn through role play. So you are able to sort of put yourself in in, you position. Yes, like tell us an example of that because I think that is a really good strategy.
Kristi McVee (48:01.451)
I did that.
Kristi McVee (48:05.721)
Yeah, okay. I what I and I feel like you're interviewing me here. I, so what happened was is and I knew that this was important. I don't know how I knew it, but I think I knew it. just got it. So when my daughter was about three or four years old, and she was at daycare, long term, long daycare, and I would say like, if I say I would go, you know, we've done the body safety rules, we've done like
My body is my body. No one's allowed to touch my body, my private parts, take videos or photos of my private parts. Like she knew those rules. You know, she knew the names for everything. And I'd be like, okay. And sometimes it was in the shower while she was having a shower. Sometimes it was just, I remember this one time she was standing in the hallway and I was standing in the hall. I don't know how it came up, but I was like, okay, I'm gonna be someone, I'm gonna be another kid asking to see your privates at daycare.
And she, And I'm going to ask you to see your privates and you're going to tell me what you, what, what you're going to do. And so I was like, Hey Charlotte. And I pretended like the voice and everything, kind of role played out. I'm like, Hey Charlotte, can you show me your vagina? And she was like, no, that's my private parts. And like, she's like, no, you're not allowed to look at my private parts. And she ran And then she ran off and she, and I said, where are you going? She's going, I'm going to tell a teacher.
And so, you know, so she practiced that and we practice that and you know, now and again, that would come up, you know, like we would practice that on and off. And again, you said it time and time again, repetition, you have to repeat this not just with neurodiverse kids, with all kids, because it's, think it's somewhere I read, a child learns, it takes 200 repetitions to learn if it's verbal, speaking, auditory.
but when they play, it's only about 30 times or something like that. So someone please send me the research and I'll read it properly. But it's like 200 times or 300 times when it's verbal or it's 20 times when it or 30 times when it's actually in role play in play. So the more we can make it a game playing and it's not a game, it's learning for young kids. It's learning.
Sharon Collon (50:17.754)
And I think you've touched on something really important there is that everyone has a different or a combination of different processing modalities. Like we have conceptual learners and they're the people who have to understand, like have a global understanding of what they're learning. So these are the kids that really like to know why. They want to know why you're telling them this information, right? So we need to honor that. That's often very strong with ADHD. Why are you talking to me about
Kristi McVee (50:43.118)
Yep.
Sharon Collon (50:43.638)
Like I can't feel safe in this conversation until you tell me why you're telling me this. Like I can't, I don't know whether I should listen or not. We have auditory, of course, which is what we tend to lean on, but it's not often what our kids are. which you mentioned, which is like having to move so you can understand what's going on. Visual. So like, that's why we use visual cues all the time. Verbal. These are the people who are verbal processes. Like they need to talk it out with someone so they can understand and make sense of what they're feeling and what they're thinking.
Kristi McVee (51:10.339)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (51:11.15)
emotional, so they need an emotional, like a really strong emotional connection to the topic. So we've really got to delve into their like what they think about it and intuitive. So these are the people that have that spontaneous insight and like that they're compelled to do something when it feels right. And then of course touch like the people who have to actually physically pick up something or have a diagram or, know, so that they can learn what that is. So we know that there's like quite a lot of different processing modalities. And when we only go for auditory,
Kristi McVee (51:13.891)
connection.
Sharon Collon (51:40.556)
which is what we do a lot as parents, we just talk about stuff, your child might not be that. And so we might need to go for a bit of a combo. I specifically want to highlight.
Kristi McVee (51:42.797)
As parents.
Kristi McVee (51:50.884)
There's a lot of combinations there because you were like listing them out. I'm like, yep, she's this, she's this, she's this, she's this. And, you know, depending on how dysregulated she is, how emotional she is, like it has to switch. And sometimes I'm not quick enough to switch with her. And that's the thing. Like she goes, I'm like, I don't know what to do here. Have a hug. Do you want a hug? And sometimes that's all she needs until she regulates and then we can have a conversation.
So, you know, like it sometimes I need a hug before I can have a conversation.
Sharon Collon (52:26.559)
And don't you wish like most like that, that a lot of the time in, difficult moments that that is really the answer anyway, like as long as you like, do you need a hug? Like, can we just, yeah.
Kristi McVee (52:35.457)
Yeah, it's like it's consent wise. My daughter now says to me, I need it. Can't you see I need a hug? And like she like she's an adult, right? And I'm like, Hey, dude, like you need to ask because I can't read minds. And I've been saying that for a few years. I'm like, if you need a hug, you just need to let me know because I'm not hugging you without consent.
Sharon Collon (52:44.118)
No!
Sharon Collon (52:51.074)
Yeah
Sharon Collon (52:56.876)
Yes, we talk about that for a minute because I thought a bit of a thing, right? I, like I am a hugger, right? But I also don't like hugging people because I'm migraine prone and people's perfumes often really trigger migraines. And it is constantly astounding me how many times I get stuck in situations where I'm getting like,
Kristi McVee (52:59.885)
You sure?
Sharon Collon (53:19.158)
hugged without my consent, right? Like I don't mind when people go like, hey, can I give you a hug? And I'm like, yes, like, of course, like, you know, like, cause I've decided. And then I was thinking about this from my kids perspective, cause I sometimes perceive hugs as a bit of a threat because I just don't want to get a migraine, right? And so it's like, for me, it's a bit different, but then for our kids that are sensory avoidant and then people like often relatives of the barbecue or whatever just come up and if they don't hug, then they get shamed. what's wrong with you? Like,
Kristi McVee (53:40.121)
force it.
Kristi McVee (53:46.006)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (53:46.532)
you can't give uncle blah, blah a hug. Like all of that blows my mind. And I've had a little taste of it because of my migraine, like sensory avoiding, right? And it happens all the time. Yet it's socially acceptable that we don't ask for consent for a hug. And we sort of shame our kids. Go on, hug them, hug them. Go and touch your body against that person. That's weird.
Kristi McVee (54:05.802)
Nah.
Kristi McVee (54:09.325)
I got really good at giving witty comebacks. And so, no, because they're really rude. I'd be like, why would he want to hug you? like, like, yeah, so I used to be really good. I'm, yeah, I think the police really made me quite, quite, my husband's like, are sharp when you throw a barb. He's like, you throw barbs and you're sharp, Kristi And I'm like,
Sharon Collon (54:12.43)
Mmm.
Kristi McVee (54:39.543)
Like it's, I'm sorry, but I don't, I'm not really sorry. I used to say things like I used to, and someone actually asked me this question on the weekend on Instagram. So this is a situation where it's similar, but not the same. she was, her child was getting their hair cut and the hairdresser was like, what school are you at? Who's your teacher? What room are you in? Like asking like lots and lots of questions. And she was like, I didn't know how to stop. I felt it was really inappropriate and I didn't know how to stop this person.
making this comment, like all of these comments and it makes me think about this situation, right? Because what I do is I turn it around and make it about them. So I said to this mom, I was like, I would have taken control of the conversation. And how I would have taken control of the conversation was I would have gone, where's your child at? I would have gone, or I would have made a comment like, isn't it strange how we ask so many personal questions of
people we don't even know. And in that case of like uncle asking, saying, what's wrong with you? I'd be like, isn't it weird that we expect our kids to hug adults when they don't see them very regularly or that they don't want to? Don't you think it's weird that we pressure kids into that? And I, that's what it used to be like. I used to like say things like, isn't it weird that you, you know, first of all, I'd be like, she said stop, you need to stop, respect her consent. That's how I was quite firm with that stuff.
But then I would be like, but isn't it weird how adults continue to touch kids when they say no or stop? Isn't it weird? Like, don't you think that's weird? And then if they didn't get it or that I was only joking, I'd be like, yeah, but that's what pedos do. And they would be like, you're calling me a pedo. No, no, no. I'm just saying like from my experience, that's how they groom kids. And I never have, like I didn't bite into it. I never got angry, but I'd be like, don't you find it weird?
Sharon Collon (56:30.094)
Hmm
Kristi McVee (56:36.995)
that we ask kids to hide secrets from their parents when you give them something that is inappropriate, like a lolly at the shop that you know will send them into a fricking absolute meltdown. Don't you think it's weird that you're asking my child? Because that's what predators do. They ask the kids to keep secrets. And it works really well because you've just basically called them a predator. No, it works really well because you're actually putting it back on them to think it and to...
to call it out, but you're not calling it out. You're not calling them out. You're just calling the behavior out. And I guess that's the thing. Like a lot of people don't like getting called out for this stuff, but we will remember behavior. And I'm sure you'll agree with me, behavior and people are different. You are not your behavior. I used to say this to my child all the time, cause she'd be like, I'm such a bad kid. I'm the, know, especially when she was having a really emotional time or something was going on at school or someone had rejected her. I'd be like, you are an amazing.
funny, bright, young person, kid, beautiful person. I said, but your behavior is different. Maybe you did make a mistake in this moment, but that's your behavior. That's not who you are. You, the person, are amazing. I said, we all do, but all our behavior can be, you know, bad, wrong, whatever word you want to give it. But I said, but you're not that. You are not your behavior.
Sharon Collon (57:58.094)
Do you know, I love that so much. And I think that's another thing that we can really model for our kids. Like I stuff up spectacularly. Like I often get people asking me questions, assuming I'm some sort of perfect parent, right? Like I lose it in the car on a regular basis, right? Like you only have to put my three kids in the car, like it's fight club in there, right? And all I do after it, like, is we don't, our kids don't need perfect parents. They just need parents who can do a repair, right?
Kristi McVee (58:08.889)
Guru. You're like the guru.
Sharon Collon (58:27.17)
All we have to do is go, that got away from me. I am so sorry about that. I lost it back there. I'm going to own that. Whoops. Like that is not how I wanted that to go down. So we're just modeling that that got it like that got away from me. I liked that language rather than saying like I did anything wrong. Cause what we're doing is like kind of modeling to our kids that you can make mistakes with behavior and that you can just own it and then, and go, you know, like next time I'm going to like put my earphones in and just.
Kristi McVee (58:43.585)
Yeah. Yeah.
Sharon Collon (58:55.96)
block you guys out. Like, I'm just going to just like a chill out for this moment, or I'm going to have some water with me some ice water, and I'm going to try and regulate while we're driving. Like you give them a thing of what you're going to do next time. And I think that that doing that repair, like just owning the behavior, saying sorry for it, and then saying what you're to do next, is actually there's so much power in that because we don't want them to think like we want them to know that behavior is separate to them, just what you said. And we also need them to know that we stuff up.
Kristi McVee (59:10.487)
Yeah, 1000%.
Sharon Collon (59:24.226)
Like it's not just them stuffing up. Like we stuff up all the time. We're spectacular stuffer-uppers-uppers. And so they need to see us doing that repair too.
Kristi McVee (59:30.498)
Yep.
The repair is the most important part if you anything you do say for instance, you overreact when you're like your child does something or you overreact when or you might go, what are you looking at? Like how you know you find them watching porn or something like that and you're like, what are you looking at porn for? my God. And then you know, when you come down coming back and going hey, and this is the language I use. Hey, I didn't handle that as best I could have like.
I know that I, you know, that's not how I want to deal with these situations. Sorry. I was just really scared in the moment and my fear made me, you know, react. And so I don't want to do that. I would like to do that better next time. And, you know, whatever. And then, you know, then have a conversation and believe me, I'm no guru when it comes to this stuff either. I hand on heart will say, you know, for the most part, I can say I've been pretty good at masking.
myself as in going to the toilet, having a f**k moment and then coming back out and going, okay, so tell me about what you know, like and I got really good at asking questions. So the thing was, is when it comes to a situation and I remember my daughter asking about 69s and I was like, hmm, interesting question. What do you know about 69s?
And then, and then I was able to find out what she knew before I was then going and blurting out like everything or in that moment, I think she was only about nine years old at the time. I was like, yeah, I don't know if you're ready for that information. But, you know, like she was she had no idea. And I was like, okay, well, it's something that adults can do. And it's and you know what, you're a child and like, it's not you're not ready to
Kristi McVee (01:01:21.305)
I didn't think I said you're not ready. It's something that adults do when they have sex and we've already she knew what sex was and I was like, so you know, and she was grossed out by sex and one of my good friends Vanessa Hamilton says, when you if your kid goes like that, you go, yeah, that's exactly the right, you know, that's exactly right because kids aren't meant to this is not for kids. This is for adults and when you are an adult, you'll you'll feel differently. But right now, that's the perfect response. You know, it's not for kids.
And so, you you just like reiterating they're having the right response in that moment and that it's not cool and it's not something kids do because it's actually not for kids. And, you know, you're not shaming them for thinking that. I remember my in-laws used to, you know, my daughter would be sitting at the table and she's just blurts stuff out, like blurts out things, blurts out.
you know, talking about penises, vaginas, like she was, you know, year five and six doing puberty education. She was talking about why, why is it that they talk about boys wet dreams, but they don't talk about female masturbation? Because you know, she was like, they talk all about boys and wet dreams and boys ejaculation, but they didn't talk about girls at all. And she was like, they just talk about pregnancy in sex education. And my in-laws were like,
absolutely mortified that we were having this conversation at the dinner table. I was like, you know what, you're 100 % correct. What do you think that they don't, you know, what do you think that they should have included in your education? Is there anything that you want to learn more about? And you know, and I got books and I helped her learn and, but they wanted to shut down the conversation. But you know, I know you're black and white kids and my black and white child was like, don't tell me what to fricking talk about. I'll talk about what I want to talk about.
And, you know, so that goes down like a lead balloon at the in-laws dinner table. But I just think that, and I was just like, I was like, yeah, sister, keep going. Like, you know.
Sharon Collon (01:03:14.19)
you
Sharon Collon (01:03:20.248)
just you're just using that opportunity for the greater good. Like when those moments come up, you like, we need to be able to support them in the moment, right? Like if they're asking questions about it, we've got to our answers and we've got to hide our shock.
Kristi McVee (01:03:29.891)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:03:35.318)
If you don't have the answers, ask questions. That would be my advice. If you don't have the answers or you don't feel you're ready. And the other thing on the repair slash ask questions is go back a couple of days later. So what would I, what I would do within 24 or 48 hours, I would say, hey, you know that conversation we had the other day about sex? And my daughter would go, yeah. And I'm like, okay, I know that it makes you feel uncomfortable, but you know, it's been a couple of days.
Is there anything else you have to you want to ask me about that? Because, you know, I know that you've probably been thinking about it, because honestly, my daughter at eight went around and asked everyone her grandparents, every adult she ever met, do you still have sex? And I was like, and every parent was like, I had so much fun laughing at everyone's reactions. But it was also a bit embarrassed. I was like, Oh, my gosh, this kid's got no filter. But at the same time, it was really good because I again, encourage conversation like
I would say, well, you know, it's not, most people don't talk about this out loud. You know, we talk about it because we want you to feel comfortable talking about things and it's, you know, it's perfect of life, et cetera. I mean, we had a farm, so we saw animals getting it on, you know, like that's always a good way to help young kids understand things. Like that's how you have babies and stuff. But for me, it was just like, okay, we just go back a couple of days later. you know, we talked about vaping the other day. Have you got any questions?
or we talked about drugs the other day, have you got any questions? Because they then go away, they have more conversations with their friends and thinking about it and they're like mulling it over in their brain and they probably do. And the more times you encourage them to come to you, the more time they're gonna come to you.
Sharon Collon (01:05:18.528)
Love that so, so much. Yeah. It is a very, very important step.
Kristi McVee (01:05:20.984)
Yep.
So Sharon, I know that you've got a really amazing something coming up in the next couple of weeks. Do you want to tell listeners about what you're doing in the next few weeks within your ADHD families community?
Sharon Collon (01:05:37.7)
Thank you. So I am hosting a free coaching week for families. And the one thing I wish that I had have been given, you know, when I was talking about crying in the car after my first son's diagnosis is we just didn't have a real clear plan about what we were targeting and what we were actually doing and how we were going to support him. And we went off in all crazy directions. Like we did, we did lots. We actually bombarded him and completely put ourselves into burnout in trying to do all of the things.
But what I realized was missing was we didn't have a very clear plan or a roadmap for how to support him in the best way possible. And I know that a lot of the information about ADHD is quite generic. And I know that families and their dynamics and the individuals, and we know that it's genetic, so it's likely to have a few members with ADHD. They need a unique tailored roadmap for their family. And so on the 2nd of March, we are starting our free coaching week.
Kristi McVee (01:06:23.287)
Yes.
Sharon Collon (01:06:33.8)
And what we're gonna do is we're doing a short thing every day and we're doing lives as well, live coaching. And then we are going to use that information to build a tailored roadmap for each family. So they actually build it as they're going through the training and going through that live coaching so that they get that roadmap. Now, this is the thing that I wish that I'd been given. It would have saved us a lot of...
heartache and it would have saved us a lot of time and money. And so I'm doing that. I think we've got 560 people registered already. I know it's going to be so great. And it's also going to work with community and this real practical, tangible tools for ADHD specifically. Now, in terms of ADHD coaching, I'm a family's coach. So that means that I'm looking at the whole family unit and how they run. And I'm big on anything that saves time, saves effort.
Kristi McVee (01:07:04.385)
What?
It is.
Sharon Collon (01:07:25.706)
and builds executive function because I think that executive function skills and being able to support our kids to be able to navigate those tricky situations that they have and be able to advocate for themselves. Tyson, so beautifully with your work as well to be able to say, this is what I need to be able to succeed in this situation. Like this is how my brain works. These are all the things that I'm super passionate about, but I know that to get there, we need to take a lot of the intense load off that primary caregiver. So I love a bit of time.
Kristi McVee (01:07:39.478)
Yes.
Sharon Collon (01:07:54.402)
saving a little bit of streamlining systems focus because I know from living it as well that we need to support it in a whole family approach, not just the child. that's what we're doing. And it's going to be exciting and fun and fun because I think being able to surround yourself with other families that are going through and navigating this as well is going to have so much power to it.
Kristi McVee (01:08:09.763)
That's amazing.
Kristi McVee (01:08:20.543)
for sure. you know, like not every child and I have seen this.
experienced it, not every child is the same. They are all wonderful, beautiful, amazing individuals. And in fact, you know, I love, you know, it sounds weird saying this, but I like, I had spent some time with a little four year old and a two year old recently, and they were just so much fun. And I forget how fun kids are, because I don't see them as much anymore, because I'm dealing with adults and parents. And so when I spend time with young people,
and young kids, I'm just like, you guys are amazing. Like, do you realize how amazing you are? And, you know, and I think as we hear so much negative stuff about kids, negative stuff about ADHD, negative stuff about autism and negative stuff about just kids in general, being a parent in general now. And I think we underestimate how amazing our kids are. They're amazing in their own special little ways. And
And I think at the end of the day, all we want for our kids is to become adults that can function, that can do the best they can in adulthood. And that's our job. And that's what you're helping them get there. You're helping them create those executive functioning, which is critical thinking, thinking things through, making better decisions. Eventually they'll get there, right? Like they will get there.
Sharon Collon (01:09:39.948)
That's right, our kids get there, right? But we just, it doesn't happen by accident in terms of making family life easier. Like we've got to put some intentional strategy behind it. And it's like TikTok probably ain't going to save us for this one. Like we need to have like a, it's just adding to our noise and overwhelm. So what, what I like is to give people like a really clear roadmap. So that, that address is the functionalfamily.com backslash roadmap. So go in, register for that. Thank you. And,
Kristi McVee (01:09:49.025)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:09:53.571)
Doom scrolling ain't gonna save us.
Kristi McVee (01:10:05.379)
Great, I'll put them in the show notes.
Sharon Collon (01:10:08.834)
You know, just get practical strategies, get the right information and be able to support your family with a real tailored approach. So I think this is a nice free, completely free achievable thing for families to get involved in.
Kristi McVee (01:10:20.215)
Yeah, you're going to be a busy, busy person with that many people getting all those tailored design, you know, all of this stuff that you're giving them. That's going to be an amazing week. So that starts on the 2nd of March, everyone. And I will put everything in the show notes. Now, Sharon, if they want to find you on socials or in your world, be in your world, how do they find you?
Sharon Collon (01:10:40.44)
So the best place to check us out is the website. So it's the functionalfamily.com. We've got the ADHD families podcast. We've got a massive support group that's free for parents, lots and lots of free resources on our website. And then yeah, we run the roadmap regularly and we've got a quest which is a 12 months coaching experience. So we've got all of those things there for you.
Kristi McVee (01:11:01.943)
I I saw your first, I saw something the other day and it's so cool. I was like, my gosh, I saw a little pop up or not a pop up, like I was scrolling, doom scrolling and I saw and you had the little scroll behind you. It was so cute.
Sharon Collon (01:11:07.822)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (01:11:19.17)
Yeah, I'm trying to changing it up. I've done with the idea of the quest is I was like, you know what? I'm just, I just need to do something more fun and tailored and personalized for people. And so the quest literally came to me and it's like, we navigate an actual quest. Like we go through the jungle and then we go to like, like the rapids and like we actually make.
Kristi McVee (01:11:38.958)
Yep.
Sharon Collon (01:11:41.506)
those things like the ADHD stages that we take families through, like the jungle is where it's all confusing and we look at who's in there in terms of professionals and what support we actually need. And then the Rapids is navigating some of those trickier behaviors and we go through all these little stages and it just gamifies it and makes it more exciting to learn and empowers parents with like that it's not just all on.
Usually like, let's face it, let's be real. It's usually the mum that's in my world, right? Like she's like exhausted, she's tired, she's looking for ways. Yeah. And so I wanted to, wanted it to be a whole family approach. So how do we do that? We get the kids involved in these, in implementing these strategies. And that's what the quest is. It's really about going, okay, this is another wild thing my mum's doing. Cause like, I don't know if you guys have noticed, but our kids also don't like grand announcements, right? Like they don't like it. Like from now on, we're all going to be the type of family that puts shoes on.
Kristi McVee (01:12:07.917)
Yeah, yeah, most of them.
Kristi McVee (01:12:17.197)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:12:32.046)
Yeah.
Sharon Collon (01:12:32.462)
like all my kids with ADHD are like, we're never going to do that, right? So we're doing it together as a family. And I think that it really encourages that buy-in and really encourages them to get on board with the strategy and take some of the pressure off the mum too.
Kristi McVee (01:12:36.109)
Ha
Kristi McVee (01:12:48.139)
Yeah, and I think the gamifier is the key. Like anything that was gamified in my daughter's life, she was like, yep, I'm there. You didn't even have to fight her for it. But if you said, let's do this together, she's like, no.
I'm too tired. I'm overwhelmed. I'm this I'm that but the minute it became a game, it was like, yeah, I'm in for that. so I think it's really important. And also, you know, you did mention it, like a lot of our kids got it from somewhere and it is genetic, you know, it's a it's a genetics thing. So a hereditary thing. mean,
Like I said, I don't think I am ADHD or autistic, but my husband definitely is. so when I look at, but they're so different, like you can have, you've got three kids, I bet you they're all different. I've got a husband and a daughter, so different. Like I can, I know how to manage and help my daughter. No idea how to do it with my husband. I'm still learning now and he's 45 years old. So.
Sharon Collon (01:13:30.723)
So.
Kristi McVee (01:13:42.773)
I mean, I think I'll be learning for the rest of my life. But, you know, thank you so much, Sharon. It's just been I love our conversations. We're so much aligned in how we do things. think it's you know, it's so beautiful that different education, different messages, but same same message in the long run. So and it's going to be helpful for people to come along to your quest and to, you know, join your community and be in your space if they've got, you know, children that
need that extra support and help.
Sharon Collon (01:14:14.414)
Thank you so much for having me on today. You know how much I really value your work and specifically for my community that is more at risk. Like I very much value the work that you do. And I know that it can be very tricky sometimes. And so I just want to honor that you're giving parents the tools to be able to navigate these tricky conversations because yeah, it's a bit.
Kristi McVee (01:14:19.298)
You
Kristi McVee (01:14:39.971)
They're so important.
Sharon Collon (01:14:40.078)
It's a wild west out there, but it is important, right? So we need to be having more of these conversations. So thank you.
Kristi McVee (01:14:43.107)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:14:47.079)
thank you Sharon. Well, thank you and I will make sure everyone knows where to go to find the quest and to find your free week.
Sharon Collon (01:14:54.808)
Thank you.
Kristi McVee (01:14:56.666)
you
