Kristi McVee (00:00)
Hello and welcome back to the Ask Kristi Podcast, a podcast by me, Kristi McVee, an ex-child abuse detective, specialist child interviewer, and police officer who spent 10 years in the police investigating child sexual abuse, among other things, but predominantly child sexual abuse and abuse. Now, today's episode is going to be about caravan parks and camping. And the reason for this episode is because I have just moved into a caravan and am traveling with my husband and two dogs around Australia. My daughter.
Who is now 18, decided to move out of home. And so we took that opportunity to run away ourselves and do something for us. And that is after my husband Brad had have a 12 months worth of cancer treatment. So we thought, you know, why not? And it was quite an interesting. We've been on the road for three weeks, we've spent a beautiful three weeks traveling through South Australia, some of Western Australia.
And then the Northern Territory visiting Uluru. And during that time, I realized that it'd been a while since I'd been camping. And you know, some of the freedom of caravan and camping and being around those spaces, it just really is a different place than you know what we might do or spend how we might spend our time in with our families or in our neighborhoods. And
Caravan parks especially, you know, kids are on their bikes roaming around, running from tent or cabin or caravan to caravan, it's a pretty amazing space. And I know that my own daughter and my own childhood was filled with those times when we did that. And it leaves a mark, like as a kid, when you have those times where you're running around, roaming, meeting kids, meeting people that you've not met before.
you know, they are some really good times, but you know, those instant friendships and stuff, but they also require a little bit of safety involved there because the worst case scenario is the last thing you want on a holiday and it can happen. in my experience, it's very easy to happen because we all get a bit more lax, we all get a bit more relaxed.
you know, you can't have eyes on your child the whole time unless you're following them around and supervising. So, caravan parks aren't dangerous. I I don't want to say that they are, but they're very trusting environments. So because we automatically trust those environments, we need clear rules and some vigilance. So I wanted to give you the eight rules that I had with my daughter when she was a kid.
the four major ones and then some extras that I added on as we went. So the reason behind these is that we're not just handing kids a list, we're teaching them to think through safety. it all comes back to body safety. And you know, I'm big on body safety education, but we can use body safety in so many ways. It's like the ground base.
of all safety for our kids when it comes to you know later on down the track teaching them about online safety and pornography and all of the things so that's what body safety is to me and I think if you can start off with body safety going all going to camping and caravan and going on trips go when they go and spend time with the family members it is all still body safety. So these rules are so that you can just
know that your kids know what to do if something happens. They know the rules. They know what to say. They know who to come to if the worst case scenario happens or if something happens. So you know predators don't look like strangers in white vans. They look like friendly neighbors. They look like the parents of a child a child that you've just met. They're the the odd they're a great guy that everyone trusts. They are, you know, they're the one that offers to look after your kids so you can have a break.
and it can be other children too. That's the thing. Like we can't just assume that kids are safe as well, just playing with the the all of the kids in a group. So th caravan parks aren't a soft target because bad people go looking for them. They're a soft target because everything that makes them wonderful, that open trust, that shared space, those kids roaming free is also what lets opportunistic abuse slip past unnoticed. So
There's just the opportunity to abuse in those spaces because there's less structure and supervision around it. All right, so the four non-negotiables of my daughter and when she was younger. I'm going to list what they are, the why. So no toilets or showers without an adult or older sibling. So, toilet blocks, bathroom blocks are shared spaces.
They've got cubicles, kids can get locked in cubicles, they're used by strangers that we don't know. Anyone can sit outside, sometimes they're outside of your direct line of sight. So for me, a non-negotiable is no toilets or showers or any spaces like that without someone with them. So sometimes that meant teaming up with another kid, like if we were traveling with a friend or family member.
my daughter was when she got to a certain age, she was only allowed to go there if she was with that another child similar age or an older child or that I trusted. again, like it's you and your family's rules, you get to choose. or an adult. So if she needed to go to the toilet, if we didn't have a toilet in our camp or a caravan or whatever, she had to go, we would go with her.
So toilets and showers blocks are non-negotiable. The next one is no going into other people's caravans or tents. again, private enclosed spaces where boundaries can easily disappear.
So it has everything has to stay open and visible in visible areas where we can supervise at all times. and where any other adult can possibly call out something if they see it. it's not about distrusting people, it's just about removing the opportunity for anything to happen in those unseen spaces, regardless of who's involved, whether it's another child, another adult, whatever. it's just to stop.
Anything happening that we can't see. So number three is no leaving an error without telling a parent and asking permission. You know, it's really necessary for us as parents to know where our kids are. And that is part of the safety rules.
Or is there a parent going to supervise them in that area? So you know, asking those questions and knowing those things means that you can walk down and check on them if they're, for instance, playing in the camp kitchen or in the some of the new caravan parks, amazing caravan parks we've been staying at, have had massive games rooms. So
you might be sitting out in the playground area and the kids want to move to the games room. Who's gonna be there to supervise? So they need to let you know. So it's really important. You're their parent. You need to keep them safe. It's a two way line of communication. If you're not comfortable with them moving over there, that's a consideration. You need to say, Hey, nah, mate, like not right now. You guys gotta stay here.
and you just don't want them to start making decisions and moving wherever they want. You know, we want strict rules for those things because it's just important that we know where our kids are. And then the rule four is if something or someone feels wrong or makes you feel uncomfortable, come tell a safe adult straight away. So it's not really a rule, but it is a rule. So hey, you know, if anything makes you feel unsafe or you feel uncomfortable or you get your early warning signs like you
butterflies in your tummy or you feel sick in the tummy because you're being made to feel uncomfortable. You come and tell a safe adult straight away. You come and tell me or daddy or whoever's in the camp. No exceptions, you know, and the one thing I did do with my daughter is teach her some excuses to use. I just need to go to the toilet. I'm gonna go get my mummy to take me to the toilet or whatever you need to create so that your child has a way to get out of a situation that they don't feel comfortable with. Again
This is kind of I would team this rule up with the body safety rules. I'd say, you know, if anyone breaks your body safety rules, because they could be playing a game that starts breaking body safety rules, which involves private parts, keeping secrets, etc. And your child knows it's a body safety rule and they know that it's not safe and they start feeling uncomfortable, they need an exit strategy. They need to know how to get out of it. So
My reminder to her before we went to a caravan park whilst we were at the caravan park while she went and played with other kids is you know, if anyone makes you feel uncomfortable, come and tell me straight away. if anyone breaks your body safe rules, come and tell me straight away. You're not gonna get in trouble. No one's gonna get in trouble. I just need to know. so it's and it's regardless of whether it's an adult or a child. Okay. So it's really important that we maintain that anyone does this.
It's really important. Number five, and this was, again, my daughter's an only child, so she didn't have this option very often, but is to buddy up. If you've got multiple kids, you know, always buddy up with at least one trusted friend or a or a sibling, never completely alone.
you know, being alone changes risk. It makes it really easy for an opportunistic abuse to happen. So buddy up, no wandering near water, dams, rivers, pools without an adult. So this one's about physical safety as much as body safety. It's the same principle. Also, I have known victims to be abused in pools and in water by an adult and by children. So
if there's an adult supervising at all times watching what's going on, we can keep an eye on what's happening, what other kids are doing, what other adults are doing around your child and also the physical safety side of, there's a high risk of drowning, high risk of getting injured. So it's really important that the kids are protected around water. They don't go in water or touch water when you're not around.
Number seven is no food, lollies or gifts from adults or kids without checking with us first. Sometimes you'll your kids will get offered food from another family or whatnot, but you know, it's really important that kids, you know, don't take food from else others. it's a nice gesture and if you're okay with it, you can say yes if you know the other family or the other camp or whoever it is. But you know, food and gifts and lollies, etc.
Are also a grooming tactic. So we want to make sure that we're aware of it at all times and we are, you know, checking through that lens of is this safe, is this required, is this normal? it's the oldest trick in the book for grooming kids, right? And yes, everyone is hopefully friendly and safe in a caravan park, but we don't know. We do not know. So it's really important that we don't take that.
And number eight is more like a general rule is know your site number and van details, know mum and dad's names if you've got little people, know their site number so that they can ask for help if they get lost or separated, but know how to get back to home or safety. yeah. And no it's not fear based, but you know, I made sure my daughter just had the confidence and competence to be able to get herself into, safety you know
things that made her feel unsafe or you know it's just normal like teach your kids their phone number like phone numbers and things like that. So it's not about not trusting the place it's about just knowing that everyone seems friendly, everyone seems safe and importantly most people are, they are, but there's always those people in this world that want to harm kids and do harm to kids. So my point is this that
These rules are just for your own family's safety. It's to set boundaries in place so that everyone knows the rules. Body safety is the same. It's about setting it's not about fearing making kids fear everything. It's not about making them scared of things. It's about giving them a a set of ground rules that keep them safe. and giving them scripts and things to help them, get out of things is really cool. It's a really important thing. My daughter used scripts all the time.
you know, if she didn't want to stay at someone's house or if she was asked to go for a play date and she didn't want to do it. All things that, you know, like if your child doesn't have the confidence to say no, you can always give them a script to help them understand that they have a right to say no whenever they want, but sometimes they're not going to feel like confident to do that, especially around adults and older kids. So I think
What I wanted you to know is that this isn't about raising anxious kids. It's about raising confident ones and kids who know the rules, know their own boundaries, and know that telling an adult is how they get help and that it's always okay to share are kids who are going to feel very safe and prepared when something happens. And that's what I've found in all of my experience with kids and investigating child sexual abuse. So the other thing is is if you haven't had those body safety conversations yet, you have to start.
And that's why I created the Conversations with Kids cards because I think parents feel like, oh I don't want to introduce a topic that is actually scaring my kids. But when you talk about these things age appropriately without, you know, talking about abuse, because we don't talk about abuse in body safety, we talk about how they feeling safe, what's unsafe and safe. we use that language, not not abuse. it really does help kids feel empowered.
and confidence. So it's not just about caravan parks and camping. This is a life, these are life skills. So you can always have a look at my conversations with kids' cards at on my website. Have a look in the show notes. But other than that, I'll see you in the next episode of Ask Kristi. Now, if you have a question, please send it through.
we try to record episodes based on what people ask. So if you have a question, if you're thinking it and you're asking it, then there's possibly other parents who are asking it too. I'm happy to try and record an episode for you specifically or to answer your email. See you next time.
