Kristi McVee (00:01.681)
Hello, Neil. I'm so grateful to have you on my podcast. I was just telling you about how I've been meaning to reach out for so long to get you on here and you're finally here. You're welcome. And one of the reasons why I wanted to reach out and have you on the podcast is because you've got this amazing
Neil Milton (00:13.39)
Well, I'm grateful to be here. Thanks so much for having me.
Kristi McVee (00:25.255)
project called the Table Talk project. And now I remember when you were launching this and I joined your mailing list all the way back then and I still read your emails. And the one of the things that I loved about the Table Talk project was that it was about helping parents and kids and families connect around the table when they have dinner. And I love that idea because wherever you can create connection is really important, especially when it comes to abuse prevention. So tell
My listeners, Neil, what led you to creating the Table Talk project and what's your purpose for all of this?
Neil Milton (01:00.27)
So the Table Talk project is about supporting families that may become special in the din table. And it really kicked off for me when I started reflecting on my own journey. And my own journey is that I never really felt like I had a voice in my home. And also not just that, but not, I didn't really have a voice at the table. It was sit down, shut up, eat your vegetables and I don't like vegetables. And so I would get smacked every night.
I would eat slowly, I would be the last one at the table, and there was never any conversation. I was really searching for an opportunity to be able to talk about what's going on in my life and things like that. the reality was that I didn't really have a voice in my home. And that kind of came to a head in my reflection when I was in my early 40s. I'm now after 45 now, so I have to say late 40s anyway.
But the reality is that I remember reflecting on my time as I was thinking about this and starting the Say We Talk project and realising that when I was 10 years old, there was a boy that groomed me and abused me, which I didn't know it was at time. And I came to my mum because I'd never had a friend before.
I was bullied as a kid and I never had a friend before and this person actually befriended me and I was like, oh, this is great. You know, this person befriended me and I came to my mom and said to mom, I just want to know, is this what is normal in a friendship? Like what this boy is doing to me, this normal? And my mom said, oh, you're just experimenting. And that abuse went on for another three years.
I never knew that it was abuse or anything like that, but what I hadn't realised is that now reflecting on it when I was in my early 40s, I actually recognised that that was a contributing factor of realising that I could never talk to my parents about things that mattered to me, that they'd be brushed off, that they'd be too busy for me or...
Neil Milton (03:19.038)
they that I never had a voice and I could never talk about things. So I think in my mind I programmed myself to never talk about things that would be and I was longing for an adult to talk with and to connect with and all that stuff and so this boy was 18 months older than me, he prevented me. I don't actually know, I know the brain actually covers up a lot of trauma and
I don't actually know how it went from playing armies and simple games and things like that to being a sexual. I actually have no idea that transition. But all I know is that in my life from 10 to 13, this boy took advantage of me and used me and ended up being in the toilet every single recess and lunchtime. And then after, if I saw him outside of those times,
it would be like that he doesn't know me. And when I was 13 years old, it ended. And it was just at that same time as Magic Johnson came out with AIDS. And I was sitting on the toilet. I remember I was sitting there with an old style encyclopedia, none of it was Google or Chat GPT thing. And I was looking up all the symptoms and thought to myself far out of every single symptom.
Kristi McVee (04:38.245)
Hahaha.
Neil Milton (04:45.486)
of AIDS. And what do do with that? And how do I do that? I've got no one to talk to. I've got no one that I can actually discuss. All I can say is that I just believe that somehow my survival technique kicked in and I just kept living. Now in my reflection, I realized that that might've been the reason why I got into drugs later on and drinking and unhelpful relationships. But
Kristi McVee (05:09.872)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (05:14.794)
What I didn't realise is that that starting point was that I'd never had a voice in my home. And because I never had a voice in my home, I never felt like anything was on the table to talk about. was all off the table. And so in thinking about the Table Talk project and realising the impact of abuse, of not having a voice and how that has set me on my path for the whole of my life.
to try and get my voice heard through careers, through relationships, through drugs, alcohol, friendships, a number of different things. What I didn't realize was that there was a starting point in that was that I didn't have a voice. And so the Table Talk project is really about creating a space so that anyone in the family can talk about what's going on. And they know that at minimum once a week.
There is a space where they can have dinner together, they can talk about things and nothing is off the table. And I just really believe that it can stabilize.
Kristi McVee (06:22.049)
Wow, Neil, I didn't know all of that. And one of the things that I did know that you were a survivor and I did know that you had. Yeah, I didn't know all that. And whilst you were speaking about the fact that you didn't have anyone you could speak to and you felt like that you literally there was no conversation that you could have where your parents would listen and hear you and support you. I felt it in my gut because that was my home as well. And
Neil Milton (06:23.598)
Thank
Kristi McVee (06:48.987)
You know, there was times when I was bullied and yeah, well, it's just that, you know, like you just feel so alone. And it's amazing that we survive that because loneliness is one of the worst feelings in the world. I don't know about you, but with my own child, I have like been like over the top with like, you can talk to me and you can always have a conversation and nothing is off the table and every conversation, you know, and, but I think that's also
Neil Milton (06:50.158)
Thank
Kristi McVee (07:17.807)
that's not because of trauma, it's because we know that it's important.
Neil Milton (07:19.894)
Thank
Yeah, absolutely. I think in society, because I don't think things have changed that much. I think we've just gotten quicker at what we do. And I think that people have become so busy and they use the term busy as a endearment rather than a tragedy. And we use that term to say, I've got prowess or I've got something that is huge.
I've got this title, I've got this, and I'm busy, I'm busy, I'm busy. And the reality is that your kids hear that and they hear that you're busy. And that actually means that that translates to them, I'm too busy for you. And so when it comes to that, I never want to be a dad that is too busy for my children and that I can't be there for them. And I know that when I was in one particular career
I really invested in that career and I think I made some really bad decisions with that. And when I got out of that, I realised that life is just so short and our time that we have other children is so short and the best thing we can offer them is our time and our listening here. And I'm talking about like having the phone and going, yes dear, or yes.
Kristi McVee (08:26.119)
you
Neil Milton (08:48.066)
Yes, yeah, you know that kind of thing. It's not like that. It's actually recognizing being actively listening and eye contact and being there for them. It's funny, my birthday was a few days ago and I got a card from my son who's 17 years old and he wrote in his card and he just said, I want to let you know that, you know, thank you for everything you're doing. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate our chats.
And he said, like, you know, I really see you as a mate. And I said to my wife, said, I said, have I failed as a dad? Like you know, as a dad, do I want to be a mate? Do I do, You know, that sort of stuff. And Kate said, actually, no, that's what you want to be. He's about to turn 18 and you've given him everything you've given him. You've taught him what you've taught him. And now he'll come to you.
for advice rather than you offering advice before he wants it to happen. And so the fact that you're a mate, you've created that environment where he knows that he can talk about anything and we've had some incredible discussions. But I think that's the thing about the Table Talk project is it actually creates an environment where people feel like they can be heard and listened and known. And I think a lot of the issues in society actually is because
Kristi McVee (09:47.844)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (09:52.519)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (10:13.056)
it starts at the table or not at the table.
Kristi McVee (10:13.415)
Yeah.
Yeah, I can relate to you so much in that. I remember when I left the police and it wasn't long after I left the police, I obviously did 10 years and I remember thinking I have wasted 10 years of my life and I wasn't here for my child, like because I was working overtime and night shifts and you know, like I was always on the job, right? And, and I was crying and I was apologizing to my then 12 year old saying, I am so sorry, I haven't been here for you and that I feel like I've
wasted your childhood and she said, I don't know what you're talking about. You're always there when I needed you. And I was like, like it literally was for me, I felt like I'd wasted the time, right? But where it mattered, obviously I was there. was there, you know, when she needed me, I was there. If she ever said she needed to talk, you know, we had conversations in the car and at night time and, you know, we always, even when we leave the house now, we all.
Neil Milton (10:51.79)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (10:59.223)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (11:13.753)
Saying my daughter's not much older than your son and you know she said to me the other day because you know going through that transition into adulthood it's a bit messy and so she said to me the other day you're the you're the person I'll always ring when I need something or when I need to talk and I'm like okay I haven't completely screwed this up
Neil Milton (11:35.79)
Yeah, absolutely. You create a safe environment and that's such a beautiful thing. You should be so proud of yourself as a mom. You were doing the best with what you had, with what you could do at the time that you had to do it. And I think that's such a beautiful thing because you're putting food on the table, you're supporting, getting all that stuff. I think the thing is, and this is why at the start of the Table Talk project, we do like a 10 week program or a five week program, depending on what organization wants it.
But we do a date night and the reason why we do a date night is because one date nights are dead. Unfortunately, it's so sad to say that but a lot of people a lot of marriages a lot of partners. They just don't have date nights. It's like I don't have time don't have money don't have you know the thought even that that's even important and so what we value and what my wife and I, we have date nights all the time and whether it's inexpensive or expensive It doesn't matter.
But we value that time because we know the foundation of a healthy family is us. And so what we're trying to do with the Table Talk project is to say, you know what? Like you guys matter the most. Like, yes, it's really important for you to have space for your children. But if you don't have space for yourself and you're not building relationships with yourself and you're not growing that relationship, then you're going to be really struggling. you're going to struggle to really build that family network and create time and space to
Kristi McVee (12:38.683)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (13:02.936)
for them. And I think the thing is what happens is, what happens is, is that, you might be married or you might be together or whatever it is and you have a baby and all of a sudden that you have another personality in there and maybe they're quite needy, maybe they have a disability, maybe they've had some complications. And then all of a sudden it's like this kind of this split, if you like, because all the attention's going on the child.
Kristi McVee (13:24.326)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (13:32.096)
And understandably in some ways, but also to recognize that you've got to invest in that relationship and those date nights. So what we do is at the start of that, or I run date nights in the community as well for couples, but just to empower them to say, hey, you can actually cut out time just for yourselves. then I teach them about the Table Talk project and how that works and how they can input that into their families. And I said to...
one particular couple, they said to me, but I don't have kids, I can't use the Table Tock Project. I said, I said, here's the thing. What it does is it creates the environment so you guys carve out time. And then if you choose to add children into your life, you've already got that foundation. And that's why the Table Tock Project, we want to focus on early learning in kinder and early primary school, because we know that if families start young with young children, the foundation's there.
Kristi McVee (14:07.943)
you
Neil Milton (14:29.774)
So that when they're teenagers, they're not trying to get their kids out of their rooms with their devices for that minimum once a week. This is valuable to us. We make this a special time.
Kristi McVee (14:34.055)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (14:40.975)
Yeah, I, everything you're saying is like, I'm thinking about my own, you know, my own childhood. And the also like what we have done in our family and I mentioned, and people know who listen regularly that my husband's got cancer and he's having time off work and stuff. And it was interesting because he used to work away. And when he came back and he was here permanently all the time, we started having every night we sat around the dinner table.
you know, sometimes the TV is on in the background, but it's on mute because we want to talk to each other. And in actual in actual fact, it was my daughter who was like, we don't need to listen to this, we need to talk. And I think it's because like in her early years, we as the two of us was my husband was away, we would sit together and talk. And so I think she just it's just an extension. I mean, it's what you get used to. It's what you expect of your partnerships and your relationships and the people around you is that, hey, let's everyone's phones are away. Everyone's
Neil Milton (15:19.15)
Mmm.
Kristi McVee (15:38.234)
like we're just going to sit here, even if it's for 20 minutes whilst we eat a meal or half an hour whilst we eat a meal and we're to talk to each other. And sometimes it's hilarious and sometimes it's silly and sometimes it's serious. But at the same time, it's been a really... So that sort of has been a big theme in the last year as we sit around and have dinner together around a dinner table talking and yeah, sometimes the TV because 2020 is on in the background, you're just watching the score. But you know, like it's not...
Neil Milton (15:43.79)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (16:06.737)
blaring at us. But when I was a kid, the news was on and no one was allowed to talk.
Neil Milton (16:10.605)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. mean, see, the thing for me is when I was a kid, we had dinner every night together, but it wasn't like a ruckus or it wasn't like people were talking, it was sit down, shut up, you know, and so it was almost like this regimented time and the space to eat food together, which was the right decision. But then there was nothing there in wrong environment.
Kristi McVee (16:35.451)
wrong environment.
Neil Milton (16:37.806)
And I remember the best time that I had at the dinning table, and this is the only time I can remember that I actually found joy, is when I pushed my brother's head into a bowl of spaghetti and my parents laughed. Like, you know, that was probably the best time that I could imagine. I don't remember any other time. I remember any conversation we had or anything like that. And what that did was that just showed me, and it's funny because I've spoken to my other brothers about it. And they also didn't feel like they had a voice in their home.
Kristi McVee (16:54.384)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (17:06.83)
and a voice at the table. And it's funny because I spoke to my parents after I created the Table Talk Project. And I said, if you had this, if you had this, this step through walkthrough process of the tabletop project to help with meaningful conversations back then, would you have used it? And they said, yeah, I think we would. But because the thing is, is that with great knowledge, becomes that great responsibility as Spiderman says.
Kristi McVee (17:13.638)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (17:30.171)
Yeah, right.
Neil Milton (17:36.142)
And that sense of understanding and that education says we can do this better. I mean, there's a study done in 2019 by Old El Paso, right? Old El Paso is the Mexican food brand for those. That's right, yeah. So they did a study and they found that seven in 10 families don't eat together regularly. Seven in 10 families. Now, my gut feeling...
Kristi McVee (17:49.885)
yeah, the taco brand.
Neil Milton (18:04.174)
says from 2009 to now, to a 21st year is worse. But the thing that I find really remarkable is that one of the reasons why they didn't gather is one, obviously time, devices, and then the other one was they always fought. That the dinner table became a fighting place and that that was this battleground.
And I wrote a blog about that recently about the reality is that when we come together, it's not a place for correction. It's actually a place for relationship. And I think it depends on what kind of view you have of the table. But the table is a metaphor for gathering together. So you could be having a picnic on the floor or you could be, you know, at a restaurant or you could do whatever it is. But it's about actually intentionally making time a minimum once a week.
to carve out that.
Kristi McVee (19:02.363)
Yeah, yeah, I think and like I said, I mean, I've always worked really hard to have a connection with my my own child. It's been more difficult with my my husband we mentioned before we started, you know, we've been together plus 30 years we've worked, we've worked five, life we've had very until in
you know, even recent years in the last 10 years, we had very separate lives. were very separate. We were together, but separate and no date nights and no, you know, like it was sort of like we were two people trying to coexist, but we didn't know how to do it properly, right? And in the last 10 years, we have worked really hard and we do go on date nights. Actually went on a date night for the first time in a while last week. And it was like, and we looked at each other and we were like, why don't we do this more?
Neil Milton (19:29.622)
No,
Neil Milton (19:37.966)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (19:45.138)
Hey, good job.
Kristi McVee (19:50.38)
love spending time together when we get time together you know like and that's that's the tragedy that's the tragedy most of us really do like and and want to be around our partners because we wouldn't have chosen them otherwise right but we don't you have to and I learned this very early on in the piece of marriage relationships you know there's that old saying
Neil Milton (19:53.716)
Absolutely. Yeah.
Neil Milton (20:02.456)
Yeah, I understand.
Kristi McVee (20:14.011)
grass is green on the other side of the fence. Well, no, actually the grass is greener where you water it. And if you water your own marriage and your own relationships, then they're going to be green and luscious and feel connected. Whereas if you're always looking over there and thinking that's better, then it's never going to work in your own split space. So I hope that I have imparted some of that onto my own child so that she understands she has to nurture herself and nurture her own relationships. But our kids learn from example too.
Neil Milton (20:24.039)
Let's drop.
Neil Milton (20:28.055)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (20:40.43)
Hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. And thing is, I speak to a lot of parents and they say, oh, it's just too far gone. I can't, you know, this is just, it's too hard. Yeah, no, but this is too hard. My relationship, do you mind if I tell you a couple of stories? So there's one particular story that really sticks to me. And we were doing a 10 week program with an organization that foster children. And we did a 10 week program and we...
Kristi McVee (20:52.283)
How is that possible?
Kristi McVee (20:58.961)
Sure.
Neil Milton (21:13.568)
traveled a long way to get there and these people came a long way as well. And at the end of the 10-week program, we have like a sharing time of the impact of the Table Talk Project on their family. And this woman got up and she said, honestly, this was the last straw. Like this was the last straw of our relationship. And you know, said, why was that? said, because my daughter was
at a point where she was getting, she was hit drugs and being away from the home and things like that. And the police would ring the mum and say, just like, know, like your daughter's here. She doesn't want to come home or this is happening or whatever it is. And the mum got to the point where she was like, she'll come home and she's ready. Like, I'm not going to come and get her. She'll come home and get like, it was just such an estranged relationship.
Kristi McVee (22:06.055)
Mm.
Neil Milton (22:11.886)
This this girl this child had only known trauma had only known brokenness from being in the foster care system and this mom was taking her in and loving on to her and supporting her but it was just getting so much and maybe some of your listeners are experiencing that with teenagers and what the deal was was that she thought this email came through through the organization and said we're going to do this Would you like to attend?
Kristi McVee (22:15.953)
here.
Neil Milton (22:41.484)
It just so happened that it wasn't too far away. And they decided, yep, we'd like to, I'll do it. And she spoke to her daughter and said, hey, you know, like, I know where we're at right now, but can you just, do you want to have a go at this? And they came along and they've been doing it. after the 10 weeks, and she said, because this was their last straw, I'm just so thankful for the Table Talk Project and how this has helped us
to come back together. And on the night, and this breaks my heart, like I'm a little bit teary-eyed, but she came up to her mom and was giving her hugs, was rubbing her back, asking if she could get her water or a drink or whatever it is, you know? And I think she was just blown away at that, you know, and that sort of thing. So that was really, really powerful. And that literally, literally, it's having a dinner a minimum once a week.
having a conversation and having a check-in to make sure everyone who leaves the table is actually going to be okay. Like that's literally how the Tabletop project works and I'll go through that a bit later, but that is the format. And so the restoration and the power behind that was just so powerful and just reminded me of how restoring being together with people that you love and your commitment to actually
making that effort to be together and have conversation to be so powerful. The second story is this particular woman took in five people, five children, and it was an absolute shit show around the table. Like I'm talking just this in the start of the Table Talk Project, the 10-week program, there was yelling, there was...
fighting, there was accusation, there was all these sorts of things and it was just awful and she was going to give up. And by about the fifth week, as they committed that minimum once a week, it started to settle down a little bit and there was respect and they had a conversation about what was respect and what was the important thing around what they're going to give for each other and those sort of things. Anyway, a teacher actually came up to
Kristi McVee (24:38.789)
my gosh.
Kristi McVee (24:50.983)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (25:06.058)
the mum and said, what have you guys been doing the last five weeks? Like what's been happening? Because your son has changed. Like in the schoolyard, he stuck up for his sister when something was going on. And she was like, what do you mean? You know, she was getting bullied and he stuck up and it was just a really loving kind of moment.
Kristi McVee (25:07.11)
Mm.
Neil Milton (25:33.402)
She said, all I've been doing is doing the Table Talk Project. We're just having dinner once a week together. That's it. And she just said, we'll keep doing it because we're seeing big changes in your son. And this is a son that was, you know, like almost on the verge of being kicked out of school and, you know, those sorts of things. you know, There's just a couple of stories of how just something so simple, a pastime that has been lost can be brought back.
Kristi McVee (25:51.302)
Wow.
Neil Milton (26:01.55)
and we can see huge things and powerful things.
Kristi McVee (26:06.675)
I think definitely a pastime of sitting around the table and conversing with each other. I just don't think it was done in the way that we are trying to do it now. I think what you have created this program and the idea behind it is something that actually hasn't been done before. It's been done in families that are loving and caring, but I don't know about you, but in my house, it was like, sit down, shut up, don't talk back to adults.
Neil Milton (26:16.974)
I'm creating.
Neil Milton (26:27.31)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (26:35.641)
Eat your dinner. I was like you, by the way, hated veggies, would be the last at the table, would gag as they went down. I fell asleep in my plate more than once. It was dry and crusty by the time I was and, you know, I wasn't allowed to throw it out and I never ate it. Like I was one of those kids that was like really terrible. And it was because it was horrible to me, like the food would taste horrible. But anyway, but, you know, like I don't think we've ever done it like this before.
Neil Milton (26:38.648)
yeah yeah yes
Yeah,
Neil Milton (26:57.326)
Bye.
Kristi McVee (27:05.015)
And the reason why we have such a disconnect in our society and in our communities and in our families, generationally, there's all of this, know, people saying, well, I don't talk to my parents anymore. Well, there's a reason why people don't feel connected to their parents or their grandparents or the generations have had this massive divide is because there was no effort put in to make them connect or to understand them where they're at or to listen.
Neil Milton (27:22.062)
Mm.
Neil Milton (27:29.858)
Yeah, that's exactly right. And I think one, there's an organization over in America called the Family Dinner Project, and they've got 20 years of research at a Harvard Medical School of the benefits of being together. And I'll share just a couple of things. If you think about this right, when you were a first-time mum, and you went to your pediatrician or
you know, those that really helped you breastfeeding and sleeping and all those different things. I promise you not once did you hear you need to have dinner together with your family, right? Never once, right? But the statistics actually say, but I bet you heard that you should read your kids at night right? And the importance of this, but the reality is that the statistics actually say
Kristi McVee (28:21.328)
Yes, yes, yes.
Neil Milton (28:26.574)
It's more beneficial to eat together as a family for children than it is to read to kids at night. It's more better from an educational perspective. Now, I nearly fell off my chair when I first read that. sysbig. And then I realized that actually that's so true because you know, when you're reading a book, it could be really monotone or even if you're excited, it's still like regimented type behavior. Whereas
in a eating dinner environment, you've got different personalities, you've got different people, you've got different tones, you've got different words that are being spoken, you're hearing different stories, all that sort of stuff. And so they find that more beneficial. The other thing is that they found a reduction in eating disorders and drug addiction and alcoholism. They found that it improved mental health and wellbeing. That was off the charts. And they also found
Kristi McVee (28:58.31)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (29:12.103)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (29:23.342)
The impact as well was that more healthy eating. So they actually ate healthier when they ate together rather than, you know, Mad Mex or KFC or pizza or whatever. And so the benefits of eating together at the table outweigh the of not actually doing it, you know, so I think the thing is there is so much more power.
Kristi McVee (29:30.364)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (29:34.895)
Yeah, yeah.
Neil Milton (29:52.782)
in doing it and making the time and starting somewhere than not actually doing it. And I think the thing is for me is that about five years ago when my daughter was quite small, she's 14 now, she actually used to say, okay, guys, I'm going to run it tonight. I'm going to use the web app. I'm going to do this, you know, and she would click the buttons and things like that. And we would listen and we would share and we'll do that.
Kristi McVee (30:19.847)
That's so cool.
Neil Milton (30:22.548)
And that's just been a real powerful thing that we do. And I guess from a personal perspective, it was at the dinner table through these table talk times that my daughter shared that she'd be bullied at school. And she felt the space to be able to share that she'd be bullied at school. We then had to intervene in that situation with the school and she was there to be helped. And now she's got a really great group of friends. It was also at the dinner table.
Kristi McVee (30:50.311)
you
Neil Milton (30:51.5)
where my son, who has a mild intellectual disability, when he was younger, shared that he was being, he had been sexually abused by another child on the bus. And it was there that we needed to intervene and try to teach the school that it's not okay to put that perpetrator back on the same bus and all those sort of things. But it was at the dinner table where they felt comfortable enough to say, actually, there is something I need to share.
And I'm not saying that we're not available all the time, they can tell us any time, but to have a designated time, it would be really, really powerful. And that's what's really helped our family.
Kristi McVee (31:20.999)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (31:28.465)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (31:33.616)
Yeah, and all of those stories even and special sorry about your son's, you know, like that's tragic. And especially, I'd imagine that would have bought some some stuff up for you as well when it happened, you know, like
I talk about this a lot in the podcast that you know, our own trauma often comes up when our children are at the age we were abused and, and or and or even the moment they're born, you don't remember anything and all of a sudden all of these memories come up that happens a lot and but you know, the thing is, is that you never had anyone to talk to it was minimized justified down, but you didn't do that because you had tools in your tool belt to go
Neil Milton (31:55.895)
Yep.
Neil Milton (32:01.356)
I'm sorry.
Kristi McVee (32:13.713)
hey mate, like that's not okay, not appropriate, we're gonna help you here. And that in and of itself is so powerful because your son isn't left with the ongoing harm that goes on when something isn't being done about it. So, I just think that if we could just, mean, like you said,
Pediatricians and nurses, they don't say it's really important to sit down and have a meal with your child. I think if we did say that, if it was something that we normalised in our society, we'd have a lot more connected families. And I know, like you said at the very beginning, families are very busy, parents have to work, things like that. But if you only show up once a week for that dinner and you give it your all in that moment, then we're not asking, well, no one's asking you to give 100%. That's impossible.
Neil Milton (32:46.51)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (33:09.705)
Mm. Mm.
Kristi McVee (33:11.023)
And parents try our best all the time, but it's just in that moment, that's what you have to give to your kids. So tell us a bit more about the project. So I'm really intrigued. So you've got a five week and a 10 week program. Plus I get all the newsletters by the way. So tell me about the project and how it works or what's the theory behind the program. You've already given a lab.
Neil Milton (33:15.342)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (33:19.502)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (33:27.054)
Thank
Neil Milton (33:35.242)
Yeah, no, absolutely. I'd love to share that. Basically, the Table Talk Project is basically a menu, if you like. A menu where it helps facilitate these conversations. So we designed a web app, which is, if you go to thetabletalkproject.org, you go to, and you click on a big button that says back at the table, you'll be taken to this web app.
This is the place we're encouraging families to come a minimum once a week. Now, ideally, I would love it not to be on a phone or on a computer, whatever it is, but unfortunately, to gather data that helps us to improve our ability to help families, you can't do it any other way. And so basically, it works like this. You've got a menu, entree main dessert. Entree is the food we eat and prepare, and we provide recipes that are healthy.
and easy to use and cheap and those sort of things. And then we have the main and the main is the conversation starter. And we provide conversation starters on all different topics that people would like to use. there's stuff for, there's conversation starters for younger, for teenagers, for older, for really young. And it just creates that environment for children to be able to share and to get
it's a bit different than how a school today is or bad or that kind of thing. And then the most important part is the dessert and the dessert is a check-in. And that's all about recognizing that we want to make sure that everyone who leaves the table is going to be okay. And so we asked two questions. We asked two questions, which is what attitude are leaving the table with? And is there anything else you wish to share? And that
Kristi McVee (35:05.509)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (35:20.327)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (35:29.59)
Is there anything else we should share is super important and super important for number of reasons. One, for those who are neurodiverse, and as I said, I've got a son who is, it sometimes takes a little bit more time to process. And so you might ask a question for a conversation starter, they might not contribute then, but then it's processed and then they go, is there anything else we should share? actually, I do have something. This is what I would like to share.
Kristi McVee (35:55.164)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (35:57.966)
And so that's really important. The other thing is that if there's something else going on for them, whether it be bullying, whether it be something that happened, whether an adult did something, whether something happened at school, whatever it is, there's also that space to say, actually, there is something else that we should share. And so that creates that environment. And then what you do at the end is you set a date for the next time. So it's that recognizing, hey, this was a great time. We want to do this again. And so that's pretty much the
core of what we're encouraging people to do is just a facilitated conversation that helps you get to it. And the truth is, after a few months or six months or a year, whatever it is, you may not need that process anymore. It becomes normal. It becomes natural. And that's actually the dream. We want people to feel like they don't need that part of the Table Talk Project to get, you know, because it's a normal part to come up with own conversation starters.
Kristi McVee (36:41.104)
Mmm.
Neil Milton (36:56.13)
and it's a very beautiful thing. So, you know, that's the core of it. The other part of it is on the website is what we call important conversations. And those important conversations is a list of a number of different types of conversations like the conversations that we think that parents should be having with their children, like the body safety consent question, the gender question, the sex question, the racism question, the political question, all those different things that are coming up
for them and are in their world, but the kids think we have to be experts to be, but we're not. And so we've got reputable links there to organisations that have better knowledge about those topics. And so the other part is that we also offer what we call, that's focused around helplines. So let's say you're having a conversation and your child actually says,
Kristi McVee (37:27.303)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (37:55.064)
you know, mama, I'm really struggling to get out of bed. Or I'm really feeling down, I don't know why. Or actually I am suicidal. Or this is what's going on for me. Or I'm really struggling with my own gender and those sort of things. There might be some things, you know, it could be a crisis point. And so what we've done is we've put a whole bunch of crisis helplines. So you don't have to go looking for where can I find those crisis helplines.
Kristi McVee (38:21.776)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (38:24.258)
Because you are not meant to be as parents, if they're listening today, you're not meant to be the expert in every single topic. Okay? You're not actually meant to be their encyclopedia. You're just meant to be their parent that loves them and cares for them and is there to listen. And you can say, I don't actually know the answer to that question, but hey, let's work it out together. And so there's that. And then the other thing what we do is we run three things. We have...
Kristi McVee (38:42.534)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (38:51.678)
I come and speak, I'd love to have more opportunities to come and share about the Table Talk Project and how that can help organisations support families. And so that's sort of more, you know, conferences or one-on-one, whatever it looks like. And then we do what we call immersive experiences. And so the organisation would invite me to come in, they would provide some food as the entree, if you like.
Kristi McVee (39:03.655)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (39:17.723)
Yep.
Neil Milton (39:17.806)
And then I would basically facilitate that day or that evening or that morning or that lunchtime and help them have an experience. So I walked through the story of the tabletop project and then we get into the experience of the Entree main dessert. And it's very interactive, it's very connecting and people can walk away so they can go back to their family or the family they're working with with some tools to help them. And then we have the 10-week program.
Kristi McVee (39:41.563)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (39:46.242)
The 10-week program we work with, know, early learning, kinder, early primary school, high school, all different organizations. And what we do is the organization identifies a bunch of families that choose to commit 10 weeks. And that 10 weeks is broken up into three free course dinners, which the organization provides. And I run all those days, all those nights. And basically you have a date night for the initial.
pre-course meal, this is what the project's about, this is what it is that I get in experience without the children present ideally. Sometimes that doesn't work like that, but that's what we want. And then we have a halfway point. So in between that, they're going home and they're just having a meal a minimum once a week. That's it, a meal once a week for five weeks. Then at five weeks, it's a halfway point. And that halfway point is an opportunity for them to bring their families, to engage together.
Kristi McVee (40:32.081)
practicing.
Neil Milton (40:45.112)
post that notes the questions, there's a whole bunch of different things that engage them to go, hey, what's this experience like? And then the 10th week is a celebration doing the same sort of things, but then it's an open discussion around what was this like? How did it impact? How did it help? How did it support? And then basically at the end of that, I developed quite an extensive report.
for the organisation to take back their board to say, at the impact. And we're seeing like 90 to 95 % of people saying, we felt, listened to and heard. We hadn't been gathering at the table, but now we're doing it all the time. Will you continue using the paper for a project? Yes, 90 something percent said that. Children said that they felt, listened to and heard. Their stories of, these are the topics that people had been talking about and connecting with and those sort of things.
Yeah, that's kind of how we run it at this stage. I'd like to develop the web app to be even more effective, but obviously that's funding. So for your listeners who want to invest in the Table Talk Project and that would be really great to make it more intuitive and more effective.
Kristi McVee (41:49.305)
Yes, yes.
Kristi McVee (41:59.24)
While you were talking about the 10 week program and just all of these things, I was just thinking, wow, imagine if schools invested in that program for their community and parents got it, you know, it just, everyone's screaming out for, even parents are screaming out to feel more connected, right? And everyone's screaming out for help and for support. And something so simple is like, I think this is a really important.
Neil Milton (42:18.894)
Mmm.
Kristi McVee (42:27.345)
part of what people could be doing. And I was thinking, so many schools and like all of the things. So I'm really keen to like promote you as much as possible, promote the Table Talk product Project as much as possible. Cause I'm just thinking, wow, there's just so much that could be achieved. And like you said, you know, in the story with the young woman or a person who was, you know, felt disconnected in the foster care home and then
Neil Milton (42:36.558)
Thank you.
Kristi McVee (42:51.761)
they were connecting back. And it doesn't take away what's happened, the trauma, the everything, but it's a little, it's the start to healing, isn't it? When you feel heard and seen and you can connect with someone and you realize that they're not against you. They're actually, they really want you to succeed. They want you to be okay. And in that moment, sometimes I used to say to my daughter all the time, don't have all the answers.
Neil Milton (43:02.702)
Mm.
Neil Milton (43:07.81)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (43:11.63)
Mm.
Kristi McVee (43:18.811)
but I'm willing to like help you find them or I'm willing to come back to you. Let me come back to you when I've got the answer. Or sometimes there's things that, we as, cause I remember, I don't know about you Neil, but when I was a kid and I felt alone, I felt like I had to deal with everything on my own. And I felt like some things that were really adult problems, I was taking on my shoulders as I had to deal with them because no one offered any other options.
Neil Milton (43:25.539)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (43:46.512)
So, you know, the thing is, is that when we normalize conversation and we as adults and parents step up and say, actually, that's not a new problem. That's a big adult problem that we need to handle. So thank you for telling us. Now we can help you with this because this is not your responsibility.
Neil Milton (43:46.574)
Mm.
Neil Milton (44:01.357)
nothing
Yeah, I think that as well. I think also, I think one of the greatest privileges that I have ever had is to fight for my kids. And what I mean by that, I'm not talking about, you with weapons, I'm talking about with my justice heart, my advocate. I often think, and I don't blame my parents, right? So I don't blame my mom for not listening to me. I don't blame, like, I've been on that journey and it was pretty dark.
Kristi McVee (44:18.247)
Advocating.
Neil Milton (44:34.201)
And like my mum still, hopefully she never will listen to this podcast because the reality is that she still doesn't think that it was abuse because it wasn't until I was in my late 20s that I was talking with a guy and he was wrestling with his own sexuality and I shared my experience and he stopped me at the end and he said, look, Neil, I need you to know that's abuse. And I'm like, no, no, no, that's just experiments. That's what my mum said. And I was in my 20s, was adult.
Kristi McVee (45:03.267)
I know so many kids.
Neil Milton (45:03.918)
like even here in my chest kind of adult, you know and I didn't know. then I had to go on that journey and started that process. so I think the thing is that, you know, I often think, you know, if mum said no, what he's doing is wrong and you're never to go around, never to be with him again, not connecting. I mean, my mum caught me with him on top of me and him not allowing me to move, you know.
Kristi McVee (45:14.279)
tough.
Neil Milton (45:33.582)
with the shed door closed. remember that, you know, I remember being in that situation and mum just said, Oh, I think it should go down. That was it. No conversation. No, what's going on here? Like how do you like Mrs. Business? Right. So I often think about that, but you know, hindsight's a beautiful thing. And also, you know, I think I listened to one of your podcasts and you said, um, you said, you know, uh, you can't reverse trauma. You just begin to live with it differently. And I think that's the thing for me.
I can't stop what happened. I can't change what had happened and I can't go back there. It's impossible to go back there and take the trauma off my body. But the reality is what I can do is I can move forward for one, I can work through my own trauma for two, and I can do everything I can to help protect my children as much as I can and also other people.
from experiencing that and creating a space if that does happen that they do feel listened to and heard. And I think the thing for me is that when it comes to this, as a dad, all I want to do is be able to fight for my children. And there's been moments in my life where I haven't been able to because I haven't been here.
but I believe that teaching and body safety consent and talking about the things that people don't want to talk about. We did a pilot before we launched the Table Talk project and we asked two questions. I had a research student ask two questions and they said, are you talking about suicide and are you talking about mental health? And we found that only a few are talking about mental health, but no one's talking about suicide with their kids.
And the number one reason we found was because they feel like they don't want to put something in their head. Now, the problem with that is, is that if you live in a society as a teenager or a young person, it's talked about all over the place, everywhere.
Kristi McVee (47:41.859)
everywhere. All over social media, all over their schoolyards, everywhere.
Neil Milton (47:46.446)
Absolutely. And I think the thing is what we try to, what we recognise is that if we don't talk about tough stuff, they're going to be taught by someone else. parents, our responsibility is to talk about the things that are hard to talk about so that our kids don't have to feel like they carry them on their own. And the Tabletop Project creates the opportunity for those types of conversations and to repair and restore and reconnect.
Kristi McVee (48:06.321)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (48:15.722)
And to be able to eat healthy food and spend that time together. And you never know the true impact of those moments until they are doing it with their children, if they're blessed to have children as well. I know the impact of the Tabletop Project in my own family, mostly seen until they are saying, hey, let's have dinner together with our own family. Or they come back and there was a...
Kristi McVee (48:39.844)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (48:44.158)
some teenagers or young adults that came to one of the 10-week programs as part of the family and at the end of it they said I'm really looking forward to coming back home when I move out of home I was going to coming back to my parents house and doing the same project with them once a week you know and so I just think you know there's a taste once you get a taste for something like this it's not something that you want to forget I had one woman one lady came up to me she goes
Kristi McVee (48:59.036)
Mm.
Neil Milton (49:14.166)
She said, I don't even have, like, I can't even see my table. You know, like it's covered in stuff like books and everything like that. And I said to her, I said to her, what would it look like if a minimum once a week, all you did is clean that table? That could be a really good example to your family that this was important to you. Because they walk past and they see all those books, they see all those boxes, they see all those things. And they go, well, that's not a place for connection.
Kristi McVee (49:21.028)
No.
Neil Milton (49:42.712)
But if you remove that and we sit around it, then it changes why you do it in the first place, then you have this place of connection. And I'm finding, I was doing a seminar with a whole bunch of local government and all these people who had done mental health first aid, they invited them to dinner and they invited me to come and run it. And there was a whole bunch of more elderly people there.
And they came up to me after someone came up to me after said, this is so good for us. And I'm like, okay, I'm trying to get like how you're working with that. I think it may be grandkids or you know, whatever it is. And they said, no, it's because we're empty nesters. And when our children left, we forgot how to talk to each other because we'd had children here. We've had people here. And now all of a sudden it's just us. And now this actually provides
Kristi McVee (50:19.719)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (50:31.271)
yeah.
Kristi McVee (50:38.855)
We don't know how to talk to each other.
Neil Milton (50:40.638)
Exactly, and this provides the space for those conversations. So I think the Table Talk project is intergenerational and it doesn't matter what age you can still connect with it.
Kristi McVee (50:48.454)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (50:53.785)
Yeah, no, I and you know what it reminds me of is yarning circles in our beautiful First Nations culture. And you know, I was thinking about sitting around a campfire and all of those things. And that's what it reminds me of. And I think it's just an extension of like that can that connection to community and connection to each other. And yeah, I just everything about it makes me I know that this is a really and you know, Like I was just having this
Neil Milton (50:59.405)
Okay.
Kristi McVee (51:22.075)
before I jumped on and we started recording, I was reading a post I created in LinkedIn. It was about, you know, the three things that need, the conditions that need to exist to, for someone to abuse a child, right? And it's it's a kind of, I didn't feel it was controversial. It was just like, we need, the vulnerability is, or the naivety of a child who doesn't understand what's happening, the power imbalance.
Neil Milton (51:35.585)
Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (51:47.588)
of the perpetrator to the child and then the disconnection between the child and their safe adult. Those are the three conditions in almost every case that exist in some way, shape or form. And someone said to me, well, it's not about the child being responsible for their abuse. And I was like, how did you get that from my post? I was saying that as these are the three conditions,
Neil Milton (51:55.053)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (51:58.574)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (52:14.073)
It's not putting a blame on the child. It's basically saying us as adults, parents need to ensure that those conditions don't exist or where we can, we need to patch them up so that, you know, someone kind of use our kids, it puts them at increased vulnerability. And so, you know, and what you're what what's happening here is, is that strong families, strong connected families with strong connected children are at and getting back to, you know, the whole purpose of this podcast is to link it back into.
Neil Milton (52:17.324)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (52:28.492)
Certainly.
Kristi McVee (52:42.929)
When we connect with our families and we connect with our children, they feel safe to come to us and tell us when something big is happening. And they don't trust us with this. They won't trust us with the big stuff until they can trust us with the small stuff. So all of small conversations make a big difference when something big happens, when something bad's happening. And I When I was going through PTSD, anxiety, my own mental health challenges.
Neil Milton (52:49.294)
Mm-hmm.
Neil Milton (52:56.888)
So.
Kristi McVee (53:10.843)
You know, I had suicidal thoughts at some stages. You know, I felt like I couldn't talk to anyone about those things, even though my family is there and it's not something you talk to a child about, but my husband, I didn't think I could talk to him about them back then. And he regrets a lot. Like, it's been six years now, but he regrets a lot because he was working away and he just left me thinking I was fine. Yet I was in this, you know, mental health hell that...
Neil Milton (53:11.246)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (53:14.616)
Hmm.
Neil Milton (53:33.165)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (53:36.761)
hellscape that I was like literally sitting there with water above my head and bobbing up and down trying to be a parent trying to survive trying to go through all of that and there's a lot of parents out there who think that they can't tell someone that they're struggling.
Neil Milton (53:51.104)
Absolutely. And I wrote a podcast about that as well. That was basically about how loneliness exists in the home. In that parents feel like they are alone and sounds like you were in situation where you felt alone, even though you had support around, but you're alone in your thoughts, alone in your mind, alone in what was going on. And I think
Kristi McVee (54:02.565)
Yeah, big time.
Kristi McVee (54:12.624)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (54:18.71)
I think that's how a lot of children feel. it's not like, I guess the way I describe it is a young person has a really tough day, right? A really shit day and they come home and they have an environment where they could listen to and heard that nothing's off the table and they can share about what's going on, right? Now that's, their parents go.
We're here to support you. We're here to love you. We're here to support you. What would it look like for us to help you in this day or whatever it is? And you know what? It becomes a shit day that they often will not forget, will not remember. And they get up the next day and they go to school. Go work out. All parents intervene or whatever it is. But let's just retract that for a second. What about if that same child had the same kind of shit day and came home?
and they didn't have that environment. But their parents were too busy to listen or non-existent or working away or whatever it is. And they had to then deal with what they're dealing with on their own. And now let's say they haven't been taught how to be resilient. They hadn't been taught how to do those things. The statistics would say that could be the last day they live and they could actually end their life. And I heard a study a long time ago and they said young people who
who who suicide actually don't want to die because they just want their voice heard or they just want the pain to stop or they just want the day the bad day to end now let's just bring it back to what we were talking about before if you intervene in that moment if you intervene in that time where you say actually i'm here i'm here to listen i'm here to hear you you might be having the shittest day and look this is this is
Kristi McVee (56:07.015)
Thank
Neil Milton (56:13.87)
super close behind to me because last year, for the first six months of our year, my son was on suicide watch. And he was going some really, really tough times. And honestly, it was absolutely fucking awful and really hard. And I'm just so glad that we were able to keep him alive because, but you know, locking up knives in
know, padlocks and all that sort of stuff. It was just horrific. It just trying to keep him alive. And I think the thing is the one thing that was consistent was that he knew that he could talk about anything. That we knew everything was going on for him. And it just got too much. One day he was walking down the road and he sat down and he was going end his life at the end of our street and someone
Kristi McVee (56:44.709)
Yeah, just doing what you had to do.
Neil Milton (57:12.226)
The neighbor drove him and didn't know at that time that she would save his life and she did. She saved his life. And from that day, we started working through some stuff and then he was able to get some help, some support. But the one consistent thing was that he knew that we were there for him and that we love him and we care about him. And we can't stop the voices. We can't stop all that stuff. we can do is we can be there.
Kristi McVee (57:38.075)
Yeah.
Neil Milton (57:41.026)
to support him through that. And so, you know, that's probably a great place to end because the Table Talk Project really is about supporting families to have those meaningful conversations that hopefully give children the hope that we know that they deserve.
Kristi McVee (57:47.033)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (57:58.917)
Yeah, definitely. And I agree. I agree. I mean, I've been in your shoes as well with my child and I haven't talked a lot about that. But, you know, as parents who deeply love and care for our kids and we just want what's better for them, you know, and we don't want what we had.
That is why these programs and these projects are so important. And it's such a simplified version of like, you don't have to have a degree to you've done all the work for them. Tell everyone how to find you and how to find the project and how to get it into their own homes if they want to.
Neil Milton (58:26.478)
Mmm.
Neil Milton (58:33.048)
Yeah, you just have to head to thetabletalkproject.org and you'll get all the information there. On our socials, it's The Table Talk Project and that's Facebook or Instagram. So you can find us anywhere from there and I'd love to have a conversation.
Kristi McVee (58:50.137)
Yeah, and you're good at it. You're good at it. You make people feel good. And yeah, I'm so grateful. I will be sharing all of the links in the show notes so that people can find you easily. I think this conversation could we could have multiple different layers to this. think any school or any organization that is looking for a way to connect their families and their and their people needs to have a have a chat with you, Neil. Thank you so much for being here for finally jumping on my podcast and
Neil Milton (58:52.493)
Hahaha.
Neil Milton (59:00.994)
Thank you.
Neil Milton (59:18.381)
Thank
Kristi McVee (59:19.335)
2026 is the year of change. feel it's very much we're going to connect back to our roots and to our families.
Neil Milton (59:28.4)
That'd be so good. Thanks so much for having me. Appreciate it.
Kristi McVee (59:30.984)
You're welcome.
