Monique Christidis (00:00.621)
Thank
Kristi McVee (00:01.454)
Hi, Monique. She made a joke in the countdown before we started about the countdown. So thank you so much for joining me, Monique. I can't believe that we sat next to each other probably three or four years ago at a conference about child sexual abuse. And here we are finally on a podcast together talking about all things, you know, prevention, education and our babies. Like you're an amazing, amazing
Monique Christidis (00:03.551)
You
Monique Christidis (00:11.292)
My pleasure.
Monique Christidis (00:18.302)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (00:27.199)
you
Kristi McVee (00:29.614)
wealth of knowledge in regards to development and babies. And I've been wanting you on here for a long time. So thank you so much. You're welcome. I know, and I wish we could have been in person, but it's so hard to like, I don't have a studio yet or anything like that. Did you notice I said yes?
Monique Christidis (00:30.975)
haha
Monique Christidis (00:36.255)
Thank you. Thank you for having me, Kristy. Absolutely delighted to be on. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (00:50.173)
Yes, that's good manifesting.
Kristi McVee (00:53.238)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Manik, so my listeners understand who you are and what you do. Can you just explain a little bit about you and how you became the amazing guru that you are?
Monique Christidis (01:04.767)
Well, thank you for the kind compliments. I have been a registered nurse for more years than I can remember, but I have been a child health nurse for the last 30 years. I counted it up the other day. And the last five of those have been in my own private business. I ended up going privately because I was getting really frustrated with the government system that were narrowing down appointment slots. And I just felt that these new parents were just
not getting enough support that they needed. And so I decided to branch out on my own as a private child health nurse, first one in WA. So I'm pretty excited about that. And I can spend as long as I want doing my own visits, which really gives me a lot of joy and a lot of pleasure. Also to when I go visit my parents that I always offer them unlimited support via
Kristi McVee (01:44.206)
Trial blazer.
Monique Christidis (01:59.721)
phone, text or email so that they've got that continuity. know that they can, there's someone that they can reach and support or lean on when they need support.
Kristi McVee (02:04.92)
you.
Kristi McVee (02:08.908)
Yeah, gosh, those first few weeks are like, especially as a new parent, they're exhausting, they're scary. I remember, I think my daughter was three weeks old and I was like nursing her, like breastfeeding in the middle of the night. And I was like having this like epiphany that, my gosh, this child needs me for everything. I don't know why it didn't happen before that. I must've been in like shock.
Monique Christidis (02:17.95)
Mm-hmm.
Monique Christidis (02:29.503)
yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (02:33.496)
but at like three weeks old and I'm like rocking her to sleep, like trying to get her back to sleep. And I was like, this is my life for the next 18 years. And it was like fear and petr- Yeah. Mind you, mind you. I don't think I was a really anxious parent but I was very scared of becoming a parent. So, know, like I so could have used more support back then.
Monique Christidis (02:45.011)
There's the anxiety. Yeah, yeah, like, holy moly.
Monique Christidis (02:58.611)
Yeah, definitely. And I feel that the parents these days then don't have that support network that we really need. the saying is that we need a village to bring up our kids, but it really is true to have the aunties and uncles and the grandmas and every, yeah, it doesn't happen. And we're so isolated. And even like I listened to a podcast the other day and the mum was saying that
Kristi McVee (03:16.558)
That's not the norm anymore.
Monique Christidis (03:27.635)
You know, we're connected with mother's groups and everything, but no one's talking about the real stuff. They were talking about, what brand did you buy? And how many times do you pump a day and all that kind of stuff? They're not actually getting into the nitty gritty of how are you feeling and how are you coping and how has your life changed? All of those really deep and meaningful questions. I don't know.
Kristi McVee (03:34.914)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (03:46.146)
Yeah. Why not? Why aren't we talking about that? Is it because we're scared to be seen like we might not be coping?
Monique Christidis (03:53.866)
Probably, yeah, because there's so much more pressure now on mums and dads these days than what we ever had before. And I'm actually, I feel actually quite relieved that I had my kids 20 plus years ago because there wasn't this expectations that we have to achieve. And unfortunately, social media has obviously a lot to blame for that purely because we see...
Kristi McVee (04:05.386)
I know. I know.
Monique Christidis (04:19.099)
everyone doing the best that they are, but then we think badly about ourselves because we think, why aren't I achieving that? Why can't I be doing that? And we get all down on ourselves, which is not the way to go at all.
Kristi McVee (04:24.929)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (04:32.3)
Yeah, I kind of, I'm on the other side of the spectrum now, like my child's nearly an adult and all of the things. And I even feel sorry for parents today because, you know, I, my daughter was born around the conception of basically Facebook. So, you know, I didn't have that Facebook or that Instagram, like perfect, like everything needs to look great. Everything is all that. And so I, you know, I, And I was quite isolated and I didn't feel like I,
Monique Christidis (04:47.783)
Yes.
mmm life
Kristi McVee (05:02.07)
Like, yes yes, I listened too much to people and I did, you know, some of it. And I mean, let's have a chat about this because I know from my perspective, my mum said, don't pick your baby up during the night. Don't, you know, she was very old school. You don't rock your baby to sleep. don't, know, whatever you start, you be careful what you start because you're going to have to continue and, you know, the dummy thing and all of these things. So I was listening to all of this crap.
Monique Christidis (05:09.715)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (05:22.143)
You
Yes.
Yes!
Kristi McVee (05:29.846)
And now, and now looking back, I'm like, I should have held my baby more. I should have, I wish I hadn't have like been so insistent that she stayed in the cot and not being rocked to sleep or, you know, all the things that, that doesn't matter when they become 18. There's no, like, they're still going to be okay. Like, honestly, it seems so important back then. And so I wish we would talk more about
Monique Christidis (05:33.661)
I wish...
Monique Christidis (05:40.615)
Yep.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Monique Christidis (05:53.3)
Yes, yeah. And that's because your mums come from the generation where the lens was through a behaviourist lens where people were looking at the behaviour of the babies and the kids. And once again, what is lingering on these days is that how uncomfortable we feel when a baby cries. And that's from the behaviourist. They're like, if your baby's crying, then you're a bad mum because you can't shut it up, which is not what I promote at all. What I say to the mums when I do a home visit is like,
When your baby cries, they're talking to you. This is how they talk to us. This is how they express themselves. And so therefore we need to try and be curious about that and understand now what are they trying to tell me now? Not just quickly plug the dummy in to shut them up. And so that's where your mum's come from. She's come from that generation where the doctors in the white coats all of a sudden made sleep become a specialty. And she was like, all the...
rules about don't rock your baby, you don't pick them up because you're to make a rod for your back or you spoil your baby like, God forbid. with our latest, yeah.
Kristi McVee (06:56.034)
I know, and I'm so disappointed in the fact that that's what I listened to and I didn't know any better. And I was a 27 year old mum, I wasn't young, but the pressure is so huge on mums and dads, and on parents in general. One thing I will say is, yeah, my mum was listening to all of that crap, but she also didn't pick me up or feed me during the night from birth. And that is...
Monique Christidis (07:02.311)
Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
It is, yes, yes.
Hmm hmm
Monique Christidis (07:21.119)
From birth! Wow! wow!
Kristi McVee (07:23.498)
Yeah, so she she told me about this recently because, you know, I'm 45 now. No wonder I'm scared to complain. Because if I just got ignored, I don't want people to ignore me.
Monique Christidis (07:33.373)
Yes, exactly. But how did she cope with that? Like you would have been screaming.
Kristi McVee (07:39.745)
I only did that, I only did it for a week, she said. She said I woke up in the night for a week and then that was it. Yeah. Which is horrendous. I would have, I have, And I don't say this very regularly, but I didn't realise until like in the last two years that I have disordered eating. And so disordered eating, you know, can be like, I won't eat until I'm starving and then I'll gorge and you know, and it's, I'm not like looking for anyone. Like,
Monique Christidis (07:43.295)
you like mmm
Monique Christidis (07:50.847)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (07:57.396)
Wow, yes. Yes, yes.
Monique Christidis (08:05.695)
Mm. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. The investigating, being curious. How come I've got that now? Why is that so important for me now? Exactly. But my heart breaks for you, but it also breaks for your mum. Because also too, like she, I'm sure that while she was doing it, she was doubting herself as well. But because the professionals had told her that was the way to do it, she just stuck to her guns. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (08:05.75)
sympathy or anything, but I think it stems back from there because I was never fed when I was crying.
Kristi McVee (08:15.564)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (08:20.994)
little baby Christy. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (08:29.213)
yeah, big time.
And her mum, her mum told her to do it. Her mum, which was born in the 30s or something like that. You know, like, so the thing is, is that I think you are so important. And child health nurses, any any kind of postnatal support is so important because you can help demystify all this stuff for parents.
Monique Christidis (08:37.523)
Yes, yeah.
Mmm, yes.
Monique Christidis (08:49.823)
Yes.
Yes, exactly. I just need to grab them and grab talk to them before they go home. Because how many antenatal appointments do you have? You know, like 10 up to 20 probably. And then you have your baby and bang, you get maybe one in the first six weeks and then another one at four months and then that's it. Two. Yeah, it's crazy.
Kristi McVee (09:01.335)
Yeah, I know.
Kristi McVee (09:08.896)
so many in the early.
Kristi McVee (09:16.75)
No wonder people are struggling. Do you have you heard of how in I think it's Korea or maybe it's in Japan? don't know. I can't remember exactly. But over there they have a whole month where they stay in bed with their baby.
Monique Christidis (09:24.735)
Mm.
Yes, yeah, that's also Chinese. Yeah, it's the best. Yep, it's the best idea. I reckon it's fabulous. And they're instructed. Yes. Yeah. So you just focus on the breastfeeding and your doula or your in-laws or your parents or whoever is looking after you, cooks the food for you, gives it to you, cleans the baby, brings the baby back, all the things. They've got that right.
Kristi McVee (09:31.552)
Yeah, and like someone comes in and looks after them.
Kristi McVee (09:38.828)
Like, let's all do that.
Kristi McVee (09:48.834)
Whoever.
Kristi McVee (09:56.557)
I mean, it's not, I know, and I think, you know, we don't, and I didn't realize how much of a impact being a parent is like, you know, it's almost like you have to reparent yourself in the process. And we talk about trauma, right? And sometimes our own childhood trauma then resurfaces when we become a parent. And so you're dealing with all this stuff.
Monique Christidis (09:59.072)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (10:06.452)
Yeah.
yeah, yeah.
Monique Christidis (10:16.401)
Yes, yes. Yeah. But did you know the latest research actually says that when we have our babies, we're actually birthing ourselves as well with a new brain, which is incredible. we've got our brain actually sheds off all the information and the connections that we don't use regularly on a daily basis.
Kristi McVee (10:29.987)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (10:40.331)
which is why we as mums we go, my god, I've got breastfeeding brain, I can't think of anything, what is going on? It's because your brain has gone through this huge change to make you more caring, to make you more empathetic, to make you be able to be protective over your child and things like that, which you wouldn't have been as in tune with before you had your child. So yeah, you do, you change dramatically once you've had a baby.
Kristi McVee (10:43.307)
Mommy Bray.
Kristi McVee (11:06.318)
And a lot of parents report that, like, you know, it's like it changed their life, like they changed their whole outlook on life. It changed their whole how they see themselves as you. And, you know, I can understand that personally, I can understand that obviously from a child abuse perspective. You know, you can see that some parents obviously that's not the norm for them or something has happened elsewhere. There's been a breakdown of something, but I can see that from my perspective that that exactly that exact thing happened. And I didn't actually know that that was what happened.
Monique Christidis (11:15.196)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (11:20.959)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (11:25.043)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (11:33.407)
Yes. Yeah. Interesting. Yep.
Kristi McVee (11:37.369)
That's amazing. tell me about, I mean, again, tell me about parenting and the like, we were talking before we started recording about the fact that if we pick up on the cues of a sleepy baby or a tired baby, that we can, we can literally possibly take less time to get them to sleep, better, better, better results in the long run, children are, you know, screaming and have, and then
Monique Christidis (11:58.301)
Yes.
Yes.
Kristi McVee (12:03.596)
As they become older, if we catch them before they get too tired, we might actually prevent a tantrum.
Monique Christidis (12:09.227)
So true, so true. And people often have this once again, a preconceived idea out there by who I don't know to tell them that dinner or bedtime should be 7pm. But in actual fact, it depends on your child and what sort of a day they've had because so many kids, if they've had a really stimulated day, maybe they've been in daycare all day or you've been out and about in and out of the car all day, that's going to be an earlier bedtime.
and an early dinner time than if you were just at home with the family and they were just playing in the backyard or something like that. So looking at what your baby has done during the day is so important, but understanding your child's tired cues is probably the biggest, most effective thing you can do to put your baby to bed and have a successful bed put down or sleep time. And yes, yes.
Kristi McVee (12:59.331)
Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (13:02.606)
And not ignoring it to, you know, yeah.
Monique Christidis (13:07.239)
And so one of the things, so I do have a downloadable on my website on TideCues that you can do and get for free. But one of the things that we always miss is if the baby looks bored because we go, you're bored quick. Let's move you as shake another toy in from your face or change position or something. Stop.
Kristi McVee (13:10.798)
Mmm.
Kristi McVee (13:22.978)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (13:26.639)
That's the baby saying to you, I'm tired now. I need to have a break and need to have a lie down. So we're often misinterpreting the tired cries or tired signs as well. So once you understand that and the same thing with the tired cry that is also very distinctive compared to a hungry cry. So understanding all those kinds of behaviour things that we're looking out for make bedtime and baby sleep so much easier.
Kristi McVee (13:30.061)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Kristi McVee (13:45.228)
Mmm, yeah.
Kristi McVee (13:55.885)
Yeah, I just remember one of the, you just made me think about my dad. He's a much older parent. He was like in his 40s when I was born. So a lot of old, old school beliefs and stuff like that. But when my daughter was about six months old, he used to say to me, when you think she's tired, put her in, put her in a like little bouncer that she had in front of a window. And I would be, because we had massive big windows in on our property looking out, right? And it was because she would be looking into the sun and she would close her eyes.
Monique Christidis (14:03.889)
Yeah.
Love you.
Monique Christidis (14:13.789)
Yeah. Yep.
Monique Christidis (14:20.861)
Yep, beautiful. Yeah, yes!
Kristi McVee (14:27.822)
And so she would fall asleep.
Monique Christidis (14:30.271)
That's hilarious.
Kristi McVee (14:32.302)
Where did you learn these tricks, Yoda? And he was like, I used to do it with you all the time. I was like, if I thought you were tired, I would put you right up in the sun and you would close your eyes and fall asleep. I was like, okay, Yoda, it worked, by the way.
Monique Christidis (14:35.559)
Yes!
Monique Christidis (14:48.273)
I've never heard of that one.
Kristi McVee (14:53.13)
anyway, my daughter loves sleep. She's 18 and she's still like by 10 o'clock she's in bed. She's like and she's she's always been a sleeper like and sleep for me personally sleep is the most important thing you can do for your children. Children. Doesn't matter what age they are and I just remember someone must have said it to me or I heard it somewhere like literally when they sleep they are that's when all of the big work happens. The brain's developing their you know all those neurons are connecting. Everything's happening right?
Monique Christidis (14:54.121)
Yes. Good. Yes. Yes.
Monique Christidis (15:17.023)
Mm. Yep.
Yes, yes, yep.
Kristi McVee (15:22.828)
And it used to make me so upset when I used to be a police officer and see little babies awake at three o'clock in the morning or 12 o'clock at night or, you know, and there was over like they weren't even sleepy because they'd been up all night with whatever party was on or whatever. And I'd be like, put that baby to bed. What are you doing? Why is this baby awake? And but that's the thing I think from my perspective. So what is the what is the stuff?
Monique Christidis (15:28.243)
Yes. Yep.
Monique Christidis (15:38.207)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (15:48.984)
I would like the data and the statistics around that. I just know that from my experience, but what do you know about sleep in regards to kids?
Monique Christidis (15:57.97)
And what actual respect.
Kristi McVee (15:59.471)
And what, well, just that, you know, what are they saying about sleep and why is it so important to our kids? And why do you believe in sleep routines? Cause I was very firm believer of sleep routines. However, we can't always keep a routine.
Monique Christidis (16:07.688)
Alright.
Monique Christidis (16:11.667)
Yes. Yes, yeah, yeah. Well, the probably the research that is showing at the moment is that bedtime should be flexible, like I was talking about before, because it depends on what you've done for the day. However, wake up times should be consistent. And that's when you set the circadian rhythm and the body clock so that that actually then sets the rest of the day's naps and also
Kristi McVee (16:26.412)
from the day.
Kristi McVee (16:31.447)
Monique Christidis (16:39.827)
when supposedly your bedtime will be. So that's one thing to watch out for. So have the same wake up time in the morning, but have a flexible bedtime depending on your day. The other thing to remember is that babies do not sleep like adults. They do not go into the three different stages of sleep that we do. They have a REM or a light sleep, and then they have a deep sleep. There's nothing in between.
Kristi McVee (16:46.989)
Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (16:54.552)
Hmm.
Monique Christidis (17:06.035)
So they go into a deep sleep and then they transition to a light sleep and that's between 30 minutes or 40 minutes and that's one sleep cycle. And depending on how your baby is with their temperament, personality, how attached they feel with you, they get to that light sleep at the end of a sleep cycle and they'll look around, they always wake up. So all babies are waking up in the night, you just might not hear them.
and then they'll put themselves back down for another cycle after that. But the kids that are maybe a little bit more sensitive or actually need more support going back to sleep will then actually wake up and cry out to say, hey, I need you now because I need to go back to sleep. And that's what we do. So that's the difference really. And that's what the latest research is showing as far as how baby sleep is so different. So when
Kristi McVee (17:50.701)
Yep.
Monique Christidis (18:01.023)
we can't expect the babies to do what we're doing. And the other thing that I've need to tell you about, because this blew my mind, is that we've actually got eight senses in total, not five. I know, right? So you get told about the five, the vision, the hearing, the smell, the taste and the touch. Then we've got vestibular, proprioception and interoception. So let me describe those three.
Kristi McVee (18:04.853)
No.
Kristi McVee (18:13.974)
Okay.
Kristi McVee (18:28.536)
Okay.
Monique Christidis (18:30.953)
The proprioception is where our body is as far as our senses, how we feel. Like, we, we're sitting up, but if we need to go grab an object, how much force do I need to push my arm out to pick something up? Or how much do my fingers need to grab around that object to hold it? Or if I've got my hands behind my back and I'm holding up two fingers, I know I'm holding up two fingers.
Kristi McVee (18:50.168)
Mm-hmm.
Monique Christidis (19:00.447)
It's not because I can see it, but I can sense that my body is doing that. And that's proprioception. Interoception is our feelings inside our tummies, the gut feelings, the butterflies, early warning signs, exactly. So that's interoception. And some kids actually who have got sensory neurodivergences actually...
Kristi McVee (19:13.856)
Mm-hmm. Early warning signs.
Monique Christidis (19:26.757)
are overwhelmed by those feelings and they can't concentrate on anything else because they've got, you know, butterflies in their tummy or something. And then the last sense is the vestibular, which is obviously the ear. But the vestibular lets us know whether we're lying down, whether we're sitting up, are we upside down? And all of our senses are on 24-7. They never stop except our nose, which is why we have
Fire alarms for our ears, not our smell for the smoke. So when we've done the great job and our baby is dead asleep in our arms and they're so like you lift up their hand and it flops back down and like, yep, yep, they're asleep and you very carefully put them into the bassinet or the cot and then 10 minutes later, they're awake.
Kristi McVee (19:57.689)
far along. Yes.
Monique Christidis (20:21.959)
You know why that is? It's because their vestibular has actually woken them up to say, you have moved your position. You need to check it out that you are safe. Because babies have got a very primitive brain and basically the safety is all that they're about. And that's why it's so important that we are there connecting, our nervous systems are connecting together because that's what helps them keep safe.
Kristi McVee (20:33.453)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (20:47.704)
Feel safe.
Monique Christidis (20:48.147)
but if they know they've moved position, they almost wake up and go, my gosh, what else has happened? Help. And so they wake up. So it's super important that when we do pop our babies down in the cot, one that we don't walk away from them and let them do it themselves, but we're there supporting them through that whole process and they're calm so that when they do stir at the end of that light sleep stage, they look around and they go, yeah.
Kristi McVee (20:55.074)
Yeah. Yep.
Monique Christidis (21:17.585)
everything's still the same, I'm still in the same position I was in the previous sleep cycle, I can go back down for another sleep cycle and then your baby's more likely to carry on sleeping through the night, even though they have disturbed, they just haven't called out for us because they didn't need our help in that moment.
Kristi McVee (21:29.986)
Yep.
Kristi McVee (21:36.015)
because they didn't wake up and where am I? What am I doing? Like this strange space and the strange, I was in arms before and now I'm a, yeah, okay. Well, it's interesting that you point all that out because I had a baby who slept all through the night from three months old. And it makes me think that maybe I intuitively did something right in that space because I used to wake her up about 10 o'clock and feed her. And then I would put her down and like she would just.
Monique Christidis (21:38.335)
Yes, exactly. Yes. Yes. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (21:57.268)
Yes, yes!
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (22:05.038)
So something there must've been, okay. I'm really, that she felt safe. I'm really intrigued because I feel like I listened to this amazing lecture from a doctor and she's coming on my podcast and I can't wait. And she was talking about all of that, that vestibular, the intro, what was interception, yep. And she was talking about that. what I was really intrigued by is that
Monique Christidis (22:05.267)
Happy? Yes. Yep. But she felt safe. I think that's the main thing.
Monique Christidis (22:25.713)
Interoception.
Kristi McVee (22:35.486)
And what you said was a lot of parents, because we don't understand this, right? This is not taught to parents, right? And people don't know it. So when we see, when our baby's not sleeping, we're sleep deprived, we're sad because we're like, all we want is for you to be happy. And we just, is our baby, why is my baby not sleeping? Why is my baby crying all the time? Is because we don't really understand that the development of children and that literally the first 12 months is all about survival.
Monique Christidis (22:43.389)
No.
Mm. Mm. Yes, we're exhausted. Mm. Mm-hm. Mm.
Monique Christidis (23:01.94)
Yes.
Yes, it is, that's right. what's even worse is that because we don't have the narrative around how their brains work, we start personalising it and we think they're doing it deliberately to piss us off. I've heard that so many times when parents go, they're just crying to piss me off. And I was like, no, they're not. exactly, they don't have that frontal cortex, which would mean that they would splot.
Kristi McVee (23:06.957)
and safety.
Kristi McVee (23:27.278)
Babies don't work that way, people.
Monique Christidis (23:33.984)
plotting and scheming and working out what's the worst way to get you. That comes later. No, hopefully not. But yeah, it's the case of the baby's brain is very primitive and the first two parts of the brain that develops and matures initially is the relationship center and the emotional center. Everything else comes later.
Kristi McVee (23:35.895)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (23:39.788)
Yeah.
Maybe, hopefully not.
Monique Christidis (24:01.927)
Some adults I know even still haven't developed their frontal cortex properly. They're still making stupid decisions. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (24:08.728)
I think my husband's didn't develop until 40. I actually said that to him the other day. I'm like, seriously, I don't reckon you actually fully developed until you're 40. And I know word of a lie, I reckon that's the truth. And he knows, he's got ADHD and autism and it's been, he used to call himself Peter Pan, like I'm never gonna grow up. And I'm like, fully, fully mate, you have to grow up. But you know, like as a parent, as a parent of an adult man child,
Monique Christidis (24:19.645)
How did he cope with that?
Monique Christidis (24:28.191)
yes. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (24:36.925)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (24:37.966)
I was very much, know, I didn't know this stuff either. It's only through like my last 16 years of this work that I've realized that, you know, sometimes we actually do more harm than good by helping, like in the, relationship side of things with your adult, with your spouse, if we continue to allow, it continues to happen, right? But when it comes to children, that's a different story. They're children, they're children.
Monique Christidis (24:57.555)
Yes, yeah, yes. So true. Yeah, it's almost like we expect a different level of standard of behaviour from our kids compared to our adults. how, yeah, how many times do you see so many adults having temper tantrums and you just go, my gosh, like really?
Kristi McVee (25:10.503)
100%.
Kristi McVee (25:19.21)
One of the things that really upsets me when I see it and when I hear about it is how we expect so much from children, yet we don't expect enough from adults. And so we expect children to be able to regulate themselves to all of these things, right? But they're a learned behavior, learned behavior. It requires this, the prefrontal cortex, right? So you know all about development. know that like, and so kids can't always do that unless they're helped through it.
Monique Christidis (25:29.343)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (25:33.523)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yep.
Yes. Yep. Yeah.
Yeah, yep, exactly. So the worst thing you could do is if your child has a temper tantrum, the worst thing you could do is walk away from them and go, OK, I'm going now. Or put them in time out. You you're pushing them away, which is the last thing that their brain is needing. Or the other side of it, where the parents actually start to try and explain why they've said no to that toy. But the child's brain just isn't in that space yet to listen. And so it just makes everyone more and more
Kristi McVee (26:00.943)
because they're looking for connection.
Monique Christidis (26:16.873)
heightened and stressed and because nothing's getting, no one's listening to the other person or feeling.
Kristi McVee (26:23.638)
Yeah, so in that space then, let's just like what cues should parents be looking for in regards to sleep? And also that connection piece because
I don't think I've been talking all week about connection on my LinkedIn and on social media is about the fact that there's three types of conditions that exist in order for abuse to happen. Right. The first one is naivety of the child because they don't understand what what's happening. And that's on us, not on the child. The second one is the power imbalance. We've got to remember that.
Monique Christidis (26:55.7)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (26:59.338)
as adults and parents, we are actually have all control and children have none, even though sometimes we think that they are trying to control us. And third of all, it is about the fact that the lack of connection between a safe adult and the child. So connection is probably the most important part of this whole conversation.
Monique Christidis (27:03.966)
Yes.
Yes.
Monique Christidis (27:14.079)
Yes. So important. Absolutely without a doubt. And the way that you connect with your child is actually to respect them. Your child has their, they're born with their own personality. They chose you to be your, their mum and dad. They've chosen you and they've come with a lot of, I do believe that a lot of our kids are old souls. You know, they're back on this earth for another time and
Kristi McVee (27:40.599)
No.
Monique Christidis (27:43.892)
they're like the kids that like don't want to do any purees. They just want to go straight to finger foods. It's like, okay, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. And so what we need to be thinking about is actually relating to our child rather than being their parent. We want to have a, like you said, a relationship with our child because
Kristi McVee (27:48.526)
They're like, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that again. Didn't like it the first time, let's go.
Monique Christidis (28:09.405)
that is how they're going to feel most supported and most validated as well. So when we sit down and we say, first of all, you put your boundaries in place so that they know what's expected of you, that's the first thing, but you also have the discussion before it happens, what will you do if they don't follow through with the boundaries and it's not time out or anything like that. It's often time in, which just means
having them right by your side doing whatever you're doing in the moment because they can't then continue to play or they can't continue to do whatever it was that they were wanting to do. So it is sort of like a punishment in respect because they're going to be doing something that they don't want to be doing but you've eyeballing them. Yep, time in. Yes, yeah, exactly. Yes, that's right. But also too, at the end of the day, having that conversation with your child.
Kristi McVee (28:53.614)
Time in, time in. Okay, we're doing the washing now. Let's go hang out the washing. All right, we're gonna put the clothes away. We're gonna make the beds now.
Monique Christidis (29:06.789)
So how was your day? And then waiting for them to respond. How did you feel about that? And how do you think the other person felt? Or could you have done that differently? And this is the start of how we get kids and other people to start being empathetic about other people, which is so important if we're going to have a nice community to live in. But it is just boiling down is respecting your child and
acknowledging them, not being on our phones, putting the phones away and actually being with them and saying, and just commenting every so often, look, you picked up the red train. Why did you pick up the red train? And then just wait for them to respond. If they don't respond, that's okay. They didn't want to, you know, but just physically being there and emotionally and engaging with them is just so important. We want our faces to tell them.
that they mean the world to us. So when they walk into the room, you just go, so good to see you. That kind of thing.
Kristi McVee (30:08.896)
Yeah, my daughter and I, it's interesting. I think I must have picked this up years ago because there was, you know, I used to work shift work and like all these hours and I missed out on so much or I felt like I missed out on so much. But when I left the police, but one of the things I used to say to her every time I saw her is, I've missed you today. All the time. And I say that all the time now. And she says it to me, like back at me and she's 18 years old. And she goes, I missed you today, mom.
Monique Christidis (30:19.091)
Yep.
Monique Christidis (30:28.253)
Yeah, that's perfect. Yes, yes, yes, yep. Yep, yeah.
Kristi McVee (30:36.974)
And I'm like, oh, I miss, well, yeah, I missed you today. Actually, I didn't notice you were missing. But anyway, I did miss you. I miss you. You know, I do miss her. But you know what I mean? Like the idea that someone actually wants you there and is so happy to see you is so important.
Monique Christidis (30:42.079)
Yes, yeah, yeah, of course. Yep. Yes. Yes. It's so important for their because that is what builds self-esteem. That's what builds resilience. That's what builds the confidence for them to say to someone, stop, I don't like that, and then go and tell somebody about it.
Kristi McVee (31:01.518)
Hmm.
Yeah, I think I mean, we talk about this in on the podcast all the time about the importance of connecting at the importance of discussing all this stuff. But really, it starts back at birth, right? And how do parents I mean, I know, I think I know, but I've only had the one child. So, you know, I don't feel like I can accurately be like the like it worked out for my sake.
Monique Christidis (31:08.927)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (31:14.899)
Yes, it does.
Kristi McVee (31:28.458)
I think. But you know, like how do parents connect from birth and from those early years? How do they stay connected, especially when they're tired, emotional, trying tantrums or just your baby's crying?
Monique Christidis (31:29.309)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (31:36.668)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, yeah. So the way you do that is actually by looking after yourself in the first instance because self-care is actually so important. I've read some research to actually say that you're, as you were saying, exhausted, you're desperate for a holiday and there's no way you haven't got the money to go on a holiday, but you so need that holiday, right, for your own mental health. They actually say,
If you visualise whatever holiday that is that you wanted to go on, whether it's by the beach, by the pool, in the snow or hiking in the rainforest, wherever that is, if you actually visualise it and imagine you doing it in the moment, the release of dopamine in your brain actually gives you that little bit of respite that actually resets your brain to actually think you actually have had a holiday, which is absolutely amazing. So...
when we do self care, we automatically then become better parents because we're more patient. So it's super important to think about ourselves in the first instance, like the old, you know, when we're on the plane and the oxygen masks drop down, they say put it on yourself first before you put it on and help other people. Because when you're regulated, you can then help the others exactly. So self care is so important. And whatever that looks like, it might be
Kristi McVee (32:57.454)
if I be regulated.
Monique Christidis (33:03.967)
If you say you're a single mum or a single parent, it might be just doing that when you put the baby down for a sleep for 10 minutes, you just sit by yourself and you visualise that holiday that you so want and how you're going to be and how you're going to feel and how you're to get sunburned or, you know, all the things. And then you go and do your chores, but you've had that little bit of a break and it doesn't need to be long. You know, 10 minutes here and there is all that you need.
Kristi McVee (33:21.389)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (33:33.344)
or on that same notion, even just doing some deep breathing helps as well. one of the, I've got my own sleep program called Baba Baby Sleep. And in that is that I always suggest to the parents that we hum to our babies rather than shushing. I don't like shushing at all because shushing is, I feel so patronizing and dismissive. Yes, because it's your...
Kristi McVee (33:56.172)
Dismissive. Dismissive!
Monique Christidis (33:59.904)
remember that the baby's cries are them talking to you and that's how they're communicating with you and you're basically saying, yeah, I don't want to listen to you, shush. Or you plug the dummy in and go shush, shush, shush. You're telling that baby that what they're saying doesn't matter to you. Which like if I was talking now and you went shush, I'd be like, excuse me, who do you think you are?
Kristi McVee (34:03.714)
Yeah, it's like being told to shut up.
Kristi McVee (34:21.294)
Yeah, it's also like very, I mean, look, don't get me wrong, I'll put hand on heart, I have shushed my own child, I've shushed my husband. So instead of humming, So you hum instead.
Monique Christidis (34:29.531)
I've shushed too, because it's instinctive, right? We do, we do it. Yes, and the reason is twofold with humming. Humming is so brilliant. One, that it's a primitive sound. So when we hum, we get the vibrations and the babies stop crying and listen. It's just amazing how it works. Dads are better at it than we are because they've got the deeper voice and the babies immediately just stop.
Kristi McVee (34:54.71)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (34:57.203)
But also too, when we hum, it resets our own vagus nerve. So if we're in fight and flight, stressed out of our brain because we haven't had any sleep, we haven't had the chance to have a shower yet, we're tired, we're exhausted and we're frayed, our nervous system's frayed, when we hum, our vagus nerves calms down automatically. And when mum is calm, baby will be calm.
Kristi McVee (35:02.723)
Wow.
Kristi McVee (35:22.188)
Everyone's calm. In fact, my family say that all the time, even now, they say things like when you're when you are not okay, the whole house is not okay. Like even now at my family's grown up and stuff, they're like, when you are like losing it, you got anxiety, PTSD, whatever's going on for you. Everyone in the house is like, shit, like, and it's still to this day, it's still happening now. And so I'm very mindful and my family's really good at calling me out.
Monique Christidis (35:32.713)
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yes. Yep. Yep.
Kristi McVee (35:51.407)
going on. We can feel it and we can feel it because we're a connected family we can feel it in each other anyway and sometimes it's like dude what what the hell go on like it do you want to talk or like go for a walk?
Monique Christidis (35:51.761)
Yeah, good, that's good, yes.
Monique Christidis (35:58.525)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (36:03.519)
Yes, yes, exactly. Yes, can't.
Kristi McVee (36:06.35)
Um, but yeah, like, um, yeah. So one of the things that you said really interestingly, um, well, one of the things, so humming is one of them. And I love that. I wish I hadn't known that instead of like, shh, shh, shh. Um, because I always sung to my baby when she was little. And I don't even remember what I sang to her, but I remember singing to her a lot. And, um, and, and maybe I made stuff up. I don't know, but
Monique Christidis (36:18.589)
Yeah yep yeah. I love that yes. Yes.
Yeah, even better.
Kristi McVee (36:34.574)
Is it okay to leave babies to cry? Because I remember like putting my baby down, she was safe in her car and I had to have a shower so I was just leaving her to cry. Like I'm not right. I was not that type of parent that was like, oh my God, my baby's crying. I've got to go here and stand over her and like settle her.
Monique Christidis (36:50.271)
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. It's not bad to leave your baby to cry, but no, but it depends on what sort of cry is the baby got because not every cry, every cry is not an attachment seeking cry. And that's what we also tend to forget about because parents these days are hearing their baby cry and immediately going to them to pick them up and calm them when in actual fact, the baby might have been doing the
Kristi McVee (36:57.08)
for a short period.
Kristi McVee (37:07.276)
Mm-hmm.
Monique Christidis (37:19.773)
the resettling cry where the baby's just doing a little bit of a whinge but doesn't need any help as per se. When you're listening to your baby's cries and you're being curious about what they're trying to tell you, you very quickly work out that, they're just getting settled or, they're grumpy bum today and they're having a whinge. they're angry at me because I'm doing something different than what they're used to and expected. Or, it's a hungry cry or, no, this is the tired cry.
And then when they're hysterical, yes, this is the attachment seeking cry. my gosh. And you'll know because your tummy just does some assaults and is saying, pick up the baby, pick up the baby. So yeah, you go and have a shower and it doesn't matter if the baby's crying when you're having a shower because it's more than likely that the baby's just talking to themselves or yelling out or going, hey, hey mum, where are you?
Kristi McVee (37:57.635)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (38:01.933)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (38:16.558)
Yeah. No, no. And I always remember thinking, well, she's safe. I've just changed her. She just had a bottle. Like she's she's got everything sorted. So I don't actually need to be there right in this minute.
Monique Christidis (38:17.683)
But they don't need you in that moment.
Monique Christidis (38:23.987)
Yes, yes, yes.
Monique Christidis (38:31.815)
Yes, yes, exactly. But remember, too, that you're looking at that from the physical lens rather than the emotional lens. So sometimes they do cry because they do need that emotional connection. But then that's when the attachment seeking cry would come out and you would feel it.
Kristi McVee (38:37.378)
Yeah, true.
Kristi McVee (38:46.92)
Mm-mm. my goodness. I remember driving. I used to live like 60 kilometers outside of like Perth. so I was up in the hills and it was miles away. And so everywhere we went was an hour, right? So you're driving to the shops, it's an hour. If you're driving home, it's an hour. And I remember she was in her car seat facing backwards. We were driving, she started crying and it was like.
Monique Christidis (38:51.802)
you
Monique Christidis (38:56.339)
Perth, wow, yes, yes.
Monique Christidis (39:02.431)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (39:10.623)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (39:14.538)
I am half an hour from home, you're just gonna have to deal with it. And I was like turning the radio up and she was going higher. It was like a full on like competition between the radio and her. And it wasn't on purpose. Like I didn't, I wasn't doing it on purpose. I was just like, I have to get home. I can't pull over. It was 40 degrees or something stupid. Yeah, so I literally, and I remember her just competing with the radio.
Monique Christidis (39:16.265)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Yes. No, of course not. Yes. It's dangerous if you pull over. Yeah. Yes. Well, sometimes putting the radio on is actually excellent because they love usually anything with a strong beat on. I know my oldest daughter loved ACDC. We put ACDC on and guess what? She's now an electric bass player.
Kristi McVee (39:55.079)
do you know what my daughter is musical like big time piano, you know, like, she's actually a DJ, she's learning to be a DJ. So like musically, like, because we always had music always constantly and not and my husband's like, I don't know, I don't know about you, ACDC, she's an electric, like, but but my husband used to play all oldies and so she's right into the old like oldies being older than us. Probably your music.
Monique Christidis (40:00.928)
Ah, fabulous! Yes, yes, yeah, yeah.
Monique Christidis (40:14.451)
Yeah.
Yeah! I was gonna say what's old is for you, 80s? 70s! Yeah!
Kristi McVee (40:25.814)
Yeah, she's right into it and she loves it. So yeah, I just think, I think we we don't realize how much we impact our kids in there and they're like what they do.
Monique Christidis (40:32.711)
Yeah, yeah. But I want to go back to also when you said that you used to sing to her, because that is also so important because the reason why is because our hearing sense is actually the first sense to be developed in utero. So when you're pregnant, I can't remember, I think they're like only 16 weeks old when the hearing actually develops. So they are hearing everything around and obviously they're hearing your voices, even though they're inside you. So
Kristi McVee (40:38.947)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (41:00.511)
Your voice is also one of the most powerful tools in your toolkit. So when you sing, if you have sung or had a regular tune or song that you played on your CDs, Spotify, on your radio, they will remember that and that gives them security and safety and that's why that works.
Kristi McVee (41:02.572)
really important.
Kristi McVee (41:15.915)
On your radio, on Spotify, on your iPod.
Kristi McVee (41:25.858)
Yeah.
I think the song I sung her the most was Doe a Deer. Doe a Deer, a female deer. Yeah, I don't know why, because I think I sung it as a kid and it was something that I remembered and it was easy and it was quick and it's sort of like, you know, it was, yeah, so I sung that to her all the time. I just, like getting back to the reason why you exist, I think as in not you the person, ba-ba baby.
Monique Christidis (41:32.913)
I'll teach you some sound of music.
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (41:50.525)
Yes.
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (41:56.429)
You can tell that Manique and I know each other personally. The reason why I love what you do is because I really wish every parent had one of you in their home to guide them through the first 12 weeks at least. Because I think it's so important. And I know, so in a little bit of my experience was my mother-in-law flew down. She didn't live in where we were and where I had my daughter. She flew down and she spent the first week with us and it was hell.
Monique Christidis (42:08.934)
I agree.
Kristi McVee (42:26.018)
And the reason why it was hell was because she, I was trying to connect with my baby and she was in there, you know, trying to be the grandparent and interrupting like everything and trying to do everything and be there because she had to fly back out again, right? And you know, I will never forgive her for this, but she ended up ringing my sister-in-law or stepsister and saying, I think she's got postnatal depression because I cried every day because all I wanted was to spend time with my baby.
Monique Christidis (42:28.831)
Yes, interrupt, yes.
you
Monique Christidis (42:42.419)
Yep. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (42:53.388)
Kristi McVee (42:54.304)
and she was taking over, right? And I will never do that to my child, ever. If she ends up having kids, it's her decision, but if she ever has children, I will be a support, not interrupt and take over. And one of the things that I really recommend to parents is to be really, I wish I had have set boundaries before I had her. I really wish I had a set boundaries, but I didn't know any better.
Monique Christidis (43:00.339)
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes. Yes.
Yes.
Monique Christidis (43:17.245)
Yes, yes exactly. Yeah, yeah exactly and she was your mother-in-law so you were respectful of what she was trying to do and and yeah, yeah, yeah, yes.
Kristi McVee (43:25.43)
I tried to. And then my mum said things and my step mum said things and like, I had all of these old beliefs, you know, I really wish I had have had the courage in that, that I wish they had been more respectful of me too.
Monique Christidis (43:39.304)
Yes, yeah, definitely. But this is where how knowledge goes a long way. Back in those days, we didn't have that knowledge that we do have now. So that's why I always say we can do parenting so much better now than what we did 20 years ago. So let's be better. Let's do better than what our parents did. But a lot of that boils down to triggers, you know, because as a child,
Kristi McVee (43:54.541)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (44:06.373)
in certain circumstances where we acknowledged when that happened. If we weren't acknowledged, then this is going to be a trigger for us. Now, when our child does that to us and we'll just fly off the handle or something. But if we're aware of what our triggers are, if we go and do the circle of security parenting course, which I really promote, if you do that, you start to learn about yourself more and how you were parented. Not that we were saying our parents not necessarily did a bad job, but in
Kristi McVee (44:15.278)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (44:20.216)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (44:35.677)
their situation, they did the best that they could. And that's all we really can ask of anybody is to do the best that we could, as long as it's covered in love and spoiling and respect, exactly.
Kristi McVee (44:38.594)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (44:45.838)
with respect. And I think also like coming back to child safety and what I talk about and like, you know, that protective factors is it's really important that we respect children's bodily autonomy. But not only that, you know, some of our
Monique Christidis (45:01.651)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (45:05.1)
relationships with our own parents. There was none of that shown to us. So we get to change that within our relationships with our own children. We get to respect their bodily autonomy. We get to model what consent looks like. We get to model what safe and healthy relationships look like. And through all of those relationships, through our relationship with our child.
Monique Christidis (45:06.803)
Yes, exactly.
Yes.
Monique Christidis (45:17.491)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (45:23.037)
Yes, yeah.
Monique Christidis (45:27.197)
Yes, and I've got this perfect example just to show you how damaging that can be when, I mean, in this scenario, the grandparent was only thinking that she was doing the best for the new mum, but the mum went and stayed with them because she had her second child and her first child was two and a half and they'd never been apart from each other before. She went and had the new baby and the grandparent would physically take the toddler away.
to do stuff while the mum woke up and either breastfed the baby or did something with the baby. But the mum actually wanted her toddler to be with her because they were so together and needed a close family. And the toddler grew up with this separation anxiety and also now not sleeping because of that separation from mum that has never happened before. And the mum had really big questions. Like, I don't understand why
Kristi McVee (46:01.679)
I don't know, involved.
Kristi McVee (46:16.471)
regression.
Monique Christidis (46:23.133)
She kept wanting to pull him away from me and things like that, but same with you. She had that older respect for her and felt that she couldn't speak up or say anything in the moment. But yeah.
Kristi McVee (46:33.996)
Yeah, you do sometimes. I really do know that from my experiences, you do feel like, don't want like they must know better because they they've been a parent and stuff. But I think one of the one one of the things that I if I had my time again, I would wish I had respected my own intuition and my own gut feelings and stood up for myself.
Monique Christidis (46:42.249)
Yeah, yep, exactly.
Monique Christidis (46:51.613)
Yes, yes. so important. Absolutely. And we've lost that skill of listening to our own intuition and our own gut feelings, but it is so important. Absolutely.
Kristi McVee (47:06.722)
Do you think, what do you see when you deal with families? Like you're obviously getting families to come to you, they come to you with like in crisis mode most of the time, is that right?
Monique Christidis (47:17.715)
Yeah, it's usually a lot of it is sleep consultations that I'm doing where the parents have basically are at the end of their rope because they might even be co-sleeping, but the baby still isn't even settling when they're co-sleeping, which is crazy. And there's no other options left for them. Like what are their options? A lot of people and families these days see the word sleep training as a bad word.
But in actual fact, I want to reshape that because sleep training is just basically giving you ideas and other things to look at within that process. It's not cried out. It's not controlled crying or gentle sleep or any of the things that it's marketed by. It is just giving your baby a good sleep environment and giving you the education to understand.
well how and why they're falling asleep and things like that. But parents are often at the end of the tether and they feel torn because on one hand you've got the group of parents that go, no, cry it out, it's fine. Just put them in, you know they're safe, just close the door and walk away. Be busy, do something so you can't hear them. And then you've got the other side of the pendulum that's actually saying, don't, like you.
Don't let your baby cry. If the baby cries, you're not doing your job right. And my baby's never cried once in their life and all those kinds of things. the term is conscious parenting. But the pendulum swung too far the other way to actually make the parents feel guilty. And we're missing that middle point, which is listening to ourselves and listening to our own gut intuitions about what we want to do. How do we want a parent?
And each family is so different and unique. So I never do a one size fits all thing because there's so many different aspects that you've got to look at with the child.
Kristi McVee (49:15.693)
Yeah.
And also, I I learned this very long time ago, but also I'm very respectful of the fact that, you know, there is not a one size fits all parenting, you know, model.
Monique Christidis (49:31.262)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (49:31.904)
All of our children are their own unique individuals and you know what works for one doesn't work for the other. I think also we need to be reminded that our children aren't like their children. They their only language they have is crying and behavior until they can articulate how to what's happening for them. And they're not doing it on purpose. And there's a lot that we need to stop blaming on kids.
Monique Christidis (49:35.059)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (49:47.646)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (49:51.23)
Yes, yes. my goodness. Yes, that's so true. Because also too, kids intrinsically actually want to make us happy. So kids will be doing everything that they can for life to be good and for mum and dad to be happy and relating well and all the things. So yes. Yep.
Kristi McVee (50:13.059)
Yeah.
and they'll blame themselves if it's not, even if it's not their fault.
Monique Christidis (50:20.465)
Yeah, we tell ourselves the stories, don't we? We blame ourselves when when mum and dad don't get along or they all they have one argument and we're worried, you know, but instead of we need to be told actually, that's what how we communicate. Couples sometimes have an argument, but it doesn't mean we're going to leave you or we're going to separate or anything like that. But they need to be told that.
Kristi McVee (50:30.659)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (50:43.254)
Yeah, I will agree with that because, you know, like, my family have been very vocal arguers. We're very vocal, like, we, you know, and we, and we, and it's a learned behaviour as we've, me and my, as my husband and I have aged, and we've, we've got better coping mechanisms and better strategies, we don't argue as much, we have more conversations. But in the early years, we used to argue a lot. And it was just how we, we
Monique Christidis (50:51.716)
yes, yes.
Yes.
Monique Christidis (51:04.563)
Yes, yes, yes.
Yes, how you grew up.
Kristi McVee (51:13.666)
I don't know, it was terrible. It's what I saw as my childhood. And then my husband was avoidant because he didn't see any arguments in his household, you know, all of that stuff, different styles, right? But I remember always going back and saying, hey, mum and dad are just having a disagreement right now. It means nothing. And I never lied to her, it did mean nothing most of the time.
Monique Christidis (51:23.729)
yeah, yep, different styles.
Monique Christidis (51:34.195)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (51:38.872)
Mum and dad aren't getting along right now. It's okay. Like it's got nothing. And because I remember blaming myself for my parents not getting along. Like, you know, if they argued over me or they argued over something like us kids or something like I remember taking that on my shoulders. And like you said, want to make us happy.
Monique Christidis (51:46.623)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (51:52.35)
Yeah, yep, yeah. Yes, yeah. The common scenario I've got is like an eight month old that slaps their mum, right? Or slaps granny. And initially we're so shocked that it happens. You just go, and the default is, what did you do that for? my gosh, you slapped mummy. Well, you know, I don't really like it, so don't do it again. But we've laughed.
Kristi McVee (52:03.266)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (52:13.239)
Yeah
Kristi McVee (52:18.326)
Sounds pretty good.
Monique Christidis (52:21.661)
And so the child has seen, that made mommy laugh and I'll do that again. Or that made granny laugh, I'll do it again. And that's where you've got to be, that's where the honesty comes in, where you've got to basically go, no, what we're actually seeing here, that hurt me and I don't like it. So that they know, sometimes our face is all we need to do.
Kristi McVee (52:44.014)
Yeah, I mean, my daughter has definitely like looked at me and gone, yeah, that wasn't okay. But you know, like, I mean, we always laugh when kids swear or we laugh when you know, like we think it's funny in the moment. I know that in I saw I saw a post on something the other day was really sad because this mum was saying how her son was having a tantrum in the shop and
Monique Christidis (52:49.811)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Monique Christidis (53:07.486)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (53:08.718)
He was on the ground throwing himself around in Woolworths and he was in the aisle and this poor mum was like trying to help him regulate before she moved on. Like she was doing what she should be doing. But some woman stood over her and was like, you know, you need to smack that kid or you need to like, she was basically shamed the poor mother. And then there was other people watching who were like nodding along and you you need to go and...
Monique Christidis (53:12.09)
yes.
Monique Christidis (53:19.133)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Monique Christidis (53:33.439)
Kristi McVee (53:37.111)
like this child is acting out of control like you're blah blah blah. And I just, like when I read it, I felt so bad for that parent because when I see kids behavior and it's like obviously not ideal, I'm like just feeling so much compassion for that parent in that moment. I'm like, if I was brave enough, I would say, hey, you got this, don't just keep doing what you're doing. I should probably speak up more often, but I...
Monique Christidis (53:42.968)
Yep. Yes.
Monique Christidis (53:53.843)
Yes! Yep!
Monique Christidis (54:01.182)
Yeah, you should do that. Yeah, because that would mean the world to them.
Kristi McVee (54:06.626)
But I think people like we get so frozen when our kids are behaving poorly or like that because they're just showing us what they need. They're just showing us they don't feel connected. They're unable to regulate themselves. They don't have the like the capacity. You know, maybe we shouldn't have taken them to the shops at that time. You know, like.
Monique Christidis (54:10.964)
Mm-hmm.
Monique Christidis (54:14.813)
Yes, yes, yeah. Yep, yep.
Monique Christidis (54:24.895)
Exactly. Maybe they're hungry. And it just made it all worse. Or they're tired. And it made it all worse. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (54:33.698)
Yeah, well, we're walking through a shop. There's so many options, you know, like that's why Walworth's has those fricking fruit and et cetera there so that we but I just wonder like, is there any advice you can give for a parent who's dealing with like a tired or a child that's displaying those behaviors and maybe just make them feel a bit safer and heard because I think everyone's been there.
Monique Christidis (54:53.949)
Yes, yes, absolutely. And I'd really like to tell every mum out there or every parent out there that you've got this, that you are your child's world. You are the best thing for them. So don't put yourself down. They wouldn't want anybody else to come in and step in at that moment to parent them. the second thing I want you to do is stop and just breathe. Because when you stop and breathe,
you then calm yourself down and then you're more likely to be more patient and then you'll be able to deal with the situation better. And at the end of the day, not everything needs to be an emergency. No one's life is in danger. So you have got the time just to stop and breathe and then validate your child. So look at that emotion and just repeat what you're seeing and say, you look like you're angry. You're angry.
you look like you really wanted that toy, but you don't have to fix it. You don't have to say, I'm not giving it to you because of X, Y, Z. You don't need to go into that. You don't need to explain yourself. You just say, you look like this. I can see, you know, and then you could even say, am I right? And they might go, yes, you do. I really wanted the toy. You know, something like that. But that's all you need to do because when we validate their feelings,
Kristi McVee (55:58.776)
Yeah.
Monique Christidis (56:17.567)
it brings everything down by a good 50%. So your temper tantrum is then more likely to dissolve much quicker, not by walking away or telling them to get up or telling them, don't say you're okay, because in that moment, they're not okay. This is the worst day of their lives. And how can you say they're okay? You're meant to be on my side. You know, they're in the moment. Yep.
Kristi McVee (56:21.356)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (56:33.891)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (56:37.93)
Yeah, they're in the moment, you know, like kids in that kids in when they like, and I remember my daughter, gosh, but you know, like at the same time, I wish I had have had some of these tools back then because like, I realize how much this matters. Like this matters to your kids so much. Because if we think about it from the perspective of like, every it's not, I mean, I don't want to stress parents out, but all of these little bits add to a big bit, like it could be
Monique Christidis (56:50.067)
Yes, it's huge, does. Yep, yep.
Monique Christidis (57:05.747)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (57:06.254)
You know, in the moment at three, when they're 13 and you haven't listened to them and heard them and had like, you just gotta think, if we learned how to have feelings and emotions and not overreact and not put them down or tell them to get over it at three, and then when they're 13 and they're going through something hard, hey, I can see that you're really struggling and I know that this is really hard for you. I wish it was different right now.
Monique Christidis (57:10.952)
All developed.
Monique Christidis (57:23.539)
Yes.
Monique Christidis (57:33.246)
Yes. Yep. Yep. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yes. No. Yes. Yes. And not every as I'm sure that a lot of parents have experienced that when they have tried to hug their child to calm them down in the moment has made it worse and they've escalated because the child is like, no, you're not listening to me. I don't want to hug. Yeah. Yes.
Kristi McVee (57:34.04)
What do you need from me right now? Would you like a hug?
Because you can't fix it for them in the moment most of the time. It's just something they have to feel.
Kristi McVee (57:54.37)
sometimes.
In the moment, no, but they once they've come down, they're like, please hug me now. I need this. need to. Yeah. It's so funny. You'll laugh at this because my daughter even now says to me, could you just hug me already? And I'm like, well, you haven't asked for a hug. So I can't, I don't, you know, I'm waiting for you to give me consent to hug you because if I force a hug on you, then it's not something you've wanted. And she's like, well, you can see I'm upset, right?
Monique Christidis (58:02.705)
then, then yes exactly, yeah, yeah.
Monique Christidis (58:14.111)
Oh, yes. It's that... Exactly. Yes, yes. Yeah. It... That is absolutely gorgeous. Yeah.
Kristi McVee (58:29.342)
But that's because I'm like, okay, you've got to give me permission to give that to you. I'm here to listen. I'm here to be. I'll just sit with you while you're going through this moment. But when you're ready, ask me for what you want, because I'm ready to give it to you when you need it. And it's the same whether they're three or whatever age, probably 30 with my daughter. You need to give me a hug. Well,
Monique Christidis (58:33.023)
Yes. Yes. Yes. And just ask me what you want. Yep. Yes. Yes. It's yeah. Yes. That's so yeah. Yeah. So true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And also to the last thing I want to leave you with, I don't know if we're leaving, but is to know that kids are not lazy and they're not naughty.
So remember, behaviour is communication. So if you feel that your child is acting up and being naughty and pushing the boundaries, stop and be curious about why they're like that and actually think, okay, maybe we haven't connected today as much as my child needs and just spend time with them and be with them. And also too, kids are not lazy. So if a child is deliberately not doing something, that's a big development question there. Maybe it's too hard.
for them, maybe they can't, maybe it's uncomfortable for them, all the things that we might not consider when a child does or actively resists doing what it is that we want them to do in the moment.
Kristi McVee (59:46.305)
Yeah, interesting. You know what I you just made me think of my friend six year old, she's a teacher, by the way, she said, I have a new puppy, right? He's only about 14 weeks old. And she was over here. And I said, the puppy is really naughty. Because he was chewing things. I said, he's such a naughty puppy. And she goes, there's no such thing as naughty just learning. And I was like, I looked at my friend and I was like, she goes, yeah.
Monique Christidis (59:57.055)
Cute.
Monique Christidis (01:00:08.263)
Yes, yeah, exactly.
Kristi McVee (01:00:13.994)
She and then she said and then she proceeded to say, well, we talk, we teach that all the time. There's no such thing as naughty kids, just kids who are still learning. And and because she says that to her all the time, she came home from school, like pre-primary last year, and she said to her, she reminded her there's no such thing as naughty kids. And she goes, well, that boy has so much to learn.
Monique Christidis (01:00:28.061)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:00:38.368)
because he was acting up like terribly and like terrible behavior at school she goes he must have a lot to learn then because he and i was like i know and she's only six and i was like how wise is that to think like that so
Monique Christidis (01:00:39.423)
Yes, yes, yeah.
Monique Christidis (01:00:45.001)
That's that gorgeous. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
I do actually think the kids growing up these days are so much more mentally and emotionally intelligent than what we ever were.
Kristi McVee (01:01:01.794)
I know, and I can't wait to see what they create. So Monique, if people want to find you, how do they find you?
Monique Christidis (01:01:04.371)
Yes, yes, yeah. Yeah, so I'm on website and Instagram social media. It's BaaBaaBaby, which is BaaBaa, BaaBaa, like BaaBaa black sheep.com.au. Don't forget the A-U on the end. And you can find my contact details, email, all that kind of things. And also do I, if you get onto my website, you'll see if you do want to learn more about.
Kristi McVee (01:01:16.877)
Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
Monique Christidis (01:01:31.433)
tired cues that you can get my free download there and hopefully that will help. And obviously know that my area of expertise is zero to five years old. Anything in the parenting room to sleep consultations. If you need a purple book assessment done, I can do that too. So anything for support.
Kristi McVee (01:01:34.86)
Awesome, awesome.
Kristi McVee (01:01:40.717)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (01:01:49.5)
amazing. I know and I know that you really care about those families. I know that, you know, I've seen your socials and I've seen that, you know, like you see them for years and then the next baby comes along and you're part, you're almost part of the family for these families. yeah, so I really highly recommend anyone but I'll put all of your information in the show notes so everyone can find you. Thank you so much, Monique.
Monique Christidis (01:01:55.135)
Mm.
Monique Christidis (01:02:01.319)
Yes! Yes! Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Monique Christidis (01:02:11.988)
Great. Great. Thank you. Thank you for talking to me. I appreciate it. Thank you. Bye. Yeah. Bye.
Kristi McVee (01:02:17.381)
It was a great chat. Thank you.
