Kristi McVee (00:00)
Welcome back to the Conversations with Kristi podcast. Now today's guest is someone I genuinely felt like I've known forever within about five minutes of talking to her. Lael Stone is an author, educator, speaker, and the co-founder of Woodline School. She started her career as a children's entertainer, moved into birth education and doula work, then post-natal trauma, then parenting, then sex education in schools, and honestly,
Nothing about this journey is surprising once you hear her talk because everything she does comes back to one thing, connection.
In this episode, we talk about why parenting takes so much courage right now, how our own unresolved childhood stuff shows up the moment our kids hit certain ages, why the way we respond to our children's big feelings has everything to do with what we were allowed to feel as kids and how it is genuinely never too late to repair.
This one is warm, honest, and I think a lot of parents are going to hear themselves in it. Let's go hear what Lael has to say.
Kristi McVee (00:59)
Hello, Lael. Thank you so much for agreeing to come onto the podcast. But also, it's an interesting thing because I know you have your own beautiful podcast that you've just started. I actually saw a couple of episodes or watched a couple of shorts of like, and you're doing some amazing work over and just having really amazing conversations. And I think...
You're a bit like me, conversations that matter are like my souls, like they nurture my soul. So thank you so much for the work you do and the conversations you're having as well.
Lael Stone (01:29)
Thank you. It's really beautiful to be here. think as I said, when I jumped on, really so acknowledge, admire and respect the work that you do and the conversations that you're having are so important. And I am so happy to contribute in some small way if I can to it.
Kristi McVee (01:45)
⁓ yeah. mean, look, we all and one thing I learned, I've learned over the years. I mean, it's a process, right? But you learn that people learn and listen through different ways. Like the way I say it doesn't always land for some people the way you say it doesn't land. So if we're all having conversations, there's never enough space like people talking about this stuff. So everyone needs to be talking.
Lael Stone (02:05)
Yeah, I agree. They
do. They do. And I think too that particularly around this topic, and as I shared with you, I had some experience, you know, years ago, teaching teenagers about sex education and then therefore working with parents around how to have these conversations. And the biggest thing that I would say all the time was the uncomfortableness that would be there for the adults. And mainly it was because they never had conversations. There's no modeling or imprints for them around how to talk about this stuff.
and how challenging that was for them to be able to then do it with their kids. And I think the more we talk about it, the more we normalise it, the more we give people ways to have these conversations, the better it is going to be for humanity. But I used to say to parents all the time, we are at this time in history where we are having to turn towards all the things we've turned away from.
Kristi McVee (02:46)
Thank you.
Yes.
Lael Stone (02:53)
And not
just, not just this topic, but many, many things. And so it, there's a lot of courage that's needed to be apparent these days. And I think if we can lean in and do it, then we're going to make a massive difference for the next generation.
Kristi McVee (03:00)
Thanks
that's so well put. I agree 100%. There. I don't think you realize when you have kids how much bravery it takes to be a parent. Like I want to, first of all, I want to acknowledge parents that, it's, literally a battlefield, especially with the amount of information is the amount of opinions. Like I remember being the parent of a young baby and
Lael Stone (03:11)
you
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (03:26)
all of these voices and noises saying you need to do it like this and you need to do it like that. And this is we've got a thousand fold with social media. Right. So I think I think a lot of us need to realize or like to come back to that intuition, that inner knowing, because we have so much inner knowing that we need to listen to. And when we come from an inner knowing of that, like you.
what are my values beliefs and how do I, you know, regardless of what my family or friends or whoever on the internet is saying, like, just come back to that and parent from there, you're not going to go wrong. But also having conversations means that we can know more.
Lael Stone (04:03)
Yeah. Yeah. And I absolutely agree with you. I wonder if these podcasts is us just going to be agreeing with each other the whole time.
Kristi McVee (04:07)
Probably.
I just wanted to make mention, I think your career and where you've come from, like, I'd love for you to explain just how you, you've mentioned that you were teaching sex ed to kids at teens and then parents, but where did it all begin for you? Like, I don't know, we find these, we stumble into these roles and then all of sudden we're like, whoa, that wasn't what I was thinking when I was doing, yeah.
Lael Stone (04:25)
Mmm.
yeah, totally. Well, I actually started. Well, if we go way, back, my first ever business, ⁓ was when I started my first company when I was 20, which was a children's entertainment company, mainly because I finished school when traveled for a bit came back. And I think from young, from a really early age, I was like, I don't want to work for someone else. I could make so much money. I want to do it the way I want to do it. And so I just.
the absolute beauty of naivety as a young person. Back then I bought a mobile phone, registered a business name, got a business card and I was like, right, I'm in business. basically just started doing kids birthday parties. It was like the same time when the Wiggles came about, right? And then I started to get busy and employ people. And then I put on these big shows and pantomimes and I spent like seven years as, you know, as a children's entertainer, which, you know, when you talk about nothing is wasted, my goodness, those.
Kristi McVee (05:09)
⁓ yeah.
Yeah.
Lael Stone (05:21)
those beautiful experiences of having to walk into a room of a lot of kids and grab their attention or know how to fill a space has come in so handy in the work that I do now as a public speaker and all those things. So I always just think, wow, nothing is ever wasted in what you do. I did that for many, years. I had my first child amongst all that, had a really tricky birth experience with him. And then I got pregnant with my second. And then when I had my second baby had this beautiful, healing, powerful birth experience.
Kristi McVee (05:36)
So we'll experiment.
Lael Stone (05:48)
And something just woke in me and went, my goodness, I want to work in birth. And so I'm one of those people that just has to follow my passion or what, you know, lights me up. So I actually closed my entertainment business. after seven years, I was kind of like, okay, done that next. And then I just started all over again. So I started learning a change as a child with educator. I worked as a doula for a really long time.
Kristi McVee (05:51)
in the house.
Hmm.
Lael Stone (06:07)
And so I spent hours and hours being with women in their most raw, vulnerable moments, you know, and being with families at those moments when their babies came into the world. And it was amazing work, powerful and incredibly challenging and, you know, deeply emotional. because our birth culture is not, think, as, yep, that's a good word. I don't think it is as held as what it needs to be. So would see a lot of trauma.
Kristi McVee (06:26)
Repressed.
you
Lael Stone (06:33)
And then I started to really see that there was a lot of trauma there. So I started working kind of by accident, working with postnatal trauma counseling. So just working with women who'd really had tricky birth experiences, helping them to unpack that. So I did that for a long time, worked in birth, teaching birth, immersing birth in the postnatal period as well. And then my children were kind of growing at that time. And then I moved a bit more into parenting because, you know, I began to see there's one thing having a baby then how do you deal with the toddler who's having big feelings and.
Kristi McVee (07:01)
meltdown.
Lael Stone (07:01)
So worked with, with parenting. So I used to run groups of parents and run workshops of parents and work one-on-one with parenting. And then as my son, who was my oldest, you know, moved into puberty, I just had this absolute freak out one day of have I taught him enough? And is he going to be respectful? And does he know about consent? And I remember just having a complete meltdown going, I haven't done enough. Is he looking at pornography? Like, I just really remember it thinking, my goodness, I need to do more. And so.
Kristi McVee (07:17)
Okay.
Lael Stone (07:28)
Instead of just like, okay, I'll learn a bit more and buy him some books. I like went deep dive into it and ended up somehow teaching sex education in his secondary school only because I mean, synchronicities that his year nine coordinator knew that I was a birth educator. And he said, would you come and talk to the kids about birth? And I was like, yeah, for sure. Then I went in and did that and they loved it. And then on the way out, I said to him, are you talking to these kids about pornography? And he's like, oh no. And I'm like, what about consent? What about this? What about that? And he's like, no. And I was like,
Oh man, we need to be. And he's like, we don't have the resources. And I was like, I will come and do it for free. And he was like, okay. So all of a sudden I'm like, wow. So then I just kind of learn a whole lot more, like dove in, studied, figure out what was going on, really looked through the lens of what would I wanted to have known when I was 15, what was the information that wasn't shared with me.
Kristi McVee (08:05)
lucky at those kids. Like literally they wouldn't have had that conversation if it hadn't been for you.
Lael Stone (08:22)
And so then that kind of just started from there. And then other schools heard I was doing it. And then I ended up at other schools too. Like it just kind of evolved because I was like, yeah. So I was like, this is what I was doing. And then from there, then the opportunity to build my own school came about ⁓ with another woman. approached me and just said, you know, we've, we've got to do something. It just isn't suiting her children. And, what if we took everything that you've taught me and, kind of put that in a school. So then I spent three years creating Woodline.
Kristi McVee (08:28)
Snowballed.
Lael Stone (08:48)
And that's been open for six years now. And so then, you know, that then somehow ended up more in education doing that, which wasn't necessarily on my radar. And then that has also led me then to really, I guess, working with trauma, understanding trauma. I mean, everything has kind of had a traumatic trauma based lens over the many years, especially through birth all the way through parenting and then into the teenage years and education, all that kind of stuff.
And so then it just kind of evolved from there. Then I read my first book and then the second book and then just travel lot around talking now about many of these things, which really is, I guess the foundation is about connection. It is about how do we stay connected to our children? How do we stay connected to ourselves? How do we stay connected to each other? And really, I guess what my work is these days is really helping adults understand themselves so that they can be the best version of themselves, not only as parents, but in how they turn up day to day.
Kristi McVee (09:15)
Bye.
Yeah.
Lael Stone (09:38)
So I've kind of started at birth, worked all the way through the ages. I figure after I do this, I'll then work maybe in death or something like that. Yeah, I'll finish off that way. But I love, often kind of reflect that it's actually been through my children's growth and development through each stage that it's peaked something in me going, have I done enough for them? What do I need to know more of? And then I've kind of thrown myself into that. And my kids are adults now.
Kristi McVee (09:45)
I'd care.
Lael Stone (10:04)
⁓ and so I feel very fortunate that I have done a lot of growing and learning with them, but also to try and make sure that they have the information and the resources and the connection that they need to navigate this world safely, but also with awareness. And I think that that has always been my driving force. And then the more I've done it with my own kids, I see that there was a need for others and that's kind of how we ended up here.
Kristi McVee (10:29)
Yeah, I resonate with so much of that. think the same for me, like my daughter was the like pivotal moment, you know, my child. And, you know, I'm sure a lot of people listening will understand that when your child is getting to those tricky ages or that tricky stage or something's happening and you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't, no one taught me this. Like, what are we doing here? And so that was me like, but when my daughter was born, I didn't realize I had.
childhood trauma until my daughter was born. And a lot of parents, you know, or a lot of people go through life and then their kids to come and then they realize, ⁓ I don't want to be like I was treated or I don't want to be that parent. But they don't really like know how to not do that because we aren't taught. it for me, my daughter come along and I was having nightmares before she was born. I was petrified of being a parent, not realizing how much parental
rejections, trauma, sensitivity, all of that. And I just remember her being three weeks old, nursing her. I had a beautiful birthing experience, beautiful pregnancy, beautiful. I could have had a hundred babies, except if there was babies. Like I loved my daughter, but I was like, but also part of the reason my daughter is the one and only, think is because of my own issues with childhood that have.
Lael Stone (11:33)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (11:44)
gone, just, and I used to say this all the time when people say, when you're having the next one, I'll be like, I want to be a really good parent to one and not a mediocre parent to multiples. So I was like, she's, I want to put all my attention and focus on being a good parent to this one baby. But when she was three weeks old, I remember looking at her breastfeeding in the middle of the night and bursting into tears thinking, how do I help this little person become, you know,
safe, healthy, happy, empowered, all of the things that I didn't feel as a parent or as a person. How do I help her have that? And I don't know how that ended up with me becoming a police officer, but here I am. And then, you know, through my policing experience and learning what I did, and then becoming a child abuse detective and being a specialist child interviewer, I then like you.
put, shared that, that my daughter was the guinea pig. And then I started sharing it. And so I feel like we're very much on the same trajectory pathway that we just want people to know as much as possible so that their lives can be better. So their children's lives can be better. Really, it's about the kids.
Lael Stone (12:48)
It's a hundred percent about the kids and I, that's always the thing that has often brought me back to my center, especially when things are hard. Cause you know, like, I'm sure in your work, wow, there's, there's been a lot of really, really hard confronting stuff. And I think that even in building my school or challenging times, I always come back to this. This is actually being of service for children to make the world a better place because
it's possible. And I see glimmers of hope of that all the time. And I see the awareness that these children have now because their parents are leaning in and doing the work and the patterns that can be changed and what can be healed. It is totally possible. And it's it's always a good reminder for me sometimes when I'm like, ⁓ God, I have to do this. So that's too hard. I often come back to actually there's a much bigger calling here, which, is incredibly an incredible privilege to do really.
Kristi McVee (13:12)
It is.
Yeah
and also I think you know with everything going out in the world right now.
what's happening in our society, which is what's happening with so much hatred and so much pain in the world. just keep, people say to me, because obviously seeing what we see with the people's trauma, you know, sometimes you can get really focused on the trauma and not focused on the fact that we actually have a, it's a, as you said, lean in to how do we make this better for our kids, for our grandkids, for our community. And it really comes back to focusing on your world, your little
world and then it has a ripple effect on the next generation or your neighbours and your community. Like you created a whole school community to change these things. So you know it does really, if you focus where you can on you and your kids then it will help change the world in its own way.
Lael Stone (14:26)
Yeah, I agree with that. I think it also to, you know, there's many parents I've worked with over the years that can have that feeling of despair of like, it's, it's too hard. There's too much pain. I, know, the trauma is too big. I don't want to turn towards it, which I totally understand. And I am a big fan of moving gently and slowly. Yet I also think like what you're saying, we can never underestimate the ripples of what happens when we lean in. And I say this to parents all the time.
you know, when we have pain, which we all do from our childhood, all of us will have experiences and stories of where we didn't get our needs met, where we weren't seen in the way we needed to. And part of our work is to be able to acknowledge that, that five-year-old me was not cared for in the way that needed, or seven-year-old me was not protected in the way that I needed to be. And our first steps always, I think, are always just acknowledging what is and what was, and holding that with deep compassion for the young parts of us that didn't get their needs met.
And when we are brave enough to do that, and maybe we need support to do that, maybe we need therapy to help us do that. But when we can hold that and lean into some healing, well, then it opens up a whole other doorway for us to change that story and pattern for the future generations. And, and I love what you're saying. The work that we often do is not just for us, but it's actually for what comes in front of us as well. And when we're able to.
Kristi McVee (15:38)
Hmm.
Lael Stone (15:49)
be brave enough to heal those pieces and they're pieces we don't pass on to our kids unconsciously. You know, they're bits that we don't place on their shoulders that they have to then carry. So it's, it takes courage and bravery. And I often say to parents, even the smallest steps make a difference. You know, even if in the moment of when you're wanting to yell and scream, you pause for a second and think, wow, I'm really activated here and there's something going on for me. And we're able to take a little step back. Well, then we've just, we've just moved a tiny bit towards.
I didn't react in that moment. And you may still react a few minutes later, but we're just becoming aware of what we are doing. And those, the more that we do that, the more we see it, the more we begin to realize that we can create change.
Kristi McVee (16:21)
Yeah.
Yeah, 100%. I think it's the awareness. And that's why for me, awareness, and what I do is about awareness, right? That's the first key point to anything that we do, whether it be body safety, whether it be talking about trauma and healing trauma, it's like, you've got to be aware to be able to make changes. And if you don't, if you don't sit with it and go, well, like you said, just sitting with it and going, yeah, acknowledging what's happened and what that's that's been part of my
journey personally like acknowledging where I wasn't kept or held or supported or seen and interestingly a couple of months ago before my daughter turned 18 I said like I don't know why it came to me at the moment she was heading off to work and I was like hey I just need to tell you something before you go it was really present for me I was like I just want to apologize and she's like
what I'm going to work and I'm like I know I know I know but I'll come back to this but I just want to apologize because one day you're going to look back and you go my mum didn't do something for me or mum created this trauma because surely like trauma is not a linear thing like I've shared this with people before but
Trauma is whatever trauma, it could be anything. I could have not turned up to something or I could have been too present or whatever it is, right? And I just wanna apologize to you that if for any trauma I have caused that when it's time and when you're ready to like bring it awareness to it you wanna talk about it, I will sit here and take accountability for it because I know that. And it was, I don't know why, but the point was is that...
Trauma is not linear. My trauma and what I've been through is not, you cannot compare trauma. A child who, because we like to say to people, well, mine wasn't as hard as yours. I didn't have parents that abused me. I didn't have this. But you might have lost a lot of people in your young life. Like you might have had a lot of grief and death in your life. That's still trauma. a pet. Losing a pet can be just as
traumatic as losing a human if you're really close to that pet and that's your support animal. So I think one of the things that we really don't do very well with trauma is to understand that trauma is not all the same. It doesn't, you don't get like a score rating of one to 10 and here's 10 and here's, sorry, you've only got a one. You can't talk about your trauma.
Lael Stone (18:46)
Yeah, I love how Gabor Mate talks about it. He says trauma is not what happens to you, it's what happens inside of you around what happened to you. And you're right. Like it's, it's really the experiences and the feelings we have connected to whatever that incident is, which can be as small as being a dog biting you or it can be something horrific happening. And it's usually our inability to process what is happening in those moments because we don't have the safety around us to process it.
Kristi McVee (19:12)
Mm-hmm.
Lael Stone (19:13)
and we can have really scary bad things happen to us and I really do take a stand that I do believe that our bodies are so clever they have all these beautiful inbuilt healing mechanisms that are there for us to heal when bad things do happen but not enough of us are aware of those parts within us or tools to be able to help ourselves when things are really really hard.
Kristi McVee (19:27)
Yep.
Lael Stone (19:36)
And that's what I think I love about this work of helping adults understand more about trauma, their own traumas, being able to see the signs in their children, to be able to hold space for them to process what's going on so that it doesn't get lodged in their bodies as something that turns up later in life. I agree with you that it's traumas in the eye of the beholder. If something was distressing for you, it was distressing. And, you know, I remember hearing this in birth a lot when I would, when I first started working in birth, I interviewed
Kristi McVee (19:58)
Yeah.
Lael Stone (20:04)
hundreds of women on their birth stories. I wanted to understand what it was for women that made for good birth and made for birth that didn't feel good for them. And it was so fascinating because three women could tell me a similar story and one of them was so deeply traumatized by it and the other two were like, yeah, it was great. And it was like, whoa, what else is going on here that is creating the situations, which had a lot to do with, you know, their past story, their imprints around whether it's being heard or being abandoned or all sorts of stuff turns up in birth. And that is what
was held in their story. And so it really made me see that, we can't box it in of this is this, you know, because we're all individual and we all have our own individual stories that we come to life with. And we make it mean what we make it mean. Some of us have skills and resources and resilience and ways to navigate the really tricky stuff. And others just have more trauma put on top of more trauma. And it's just a really, really big story that sits there for them. And, know, I have deep.
empathy for anybody's traumatic experience. Of course, we don't want that for people to move through trauma. But I like to stand in a place where I say, and I've seen this enough over doing this work for a long time, that I really do believe that healing is possible. When we have the right circumstances and the right timing and the right tools for us, that we are pretty extraordinary as humans in our capacity to heal. We often just need the right environment to do it.
Kristi McVee (21:17)
Hmm.
anything is possible.
Anything is possible. And I think we've gotten to the point in some ways when, and look, I'm not discounting anyone's because a few things can be true at the same time, right? You gotta see it.
to be it is one of the things that I used to say to young people, especially young people that I was unfortunately having to arrest or were coming through the police station. I used to talk to them about how amazing they were. But what their reality was is they might not have had the greatest home life, they might have not had any support in their life or in their community. couldn't see.
young people and people becoming sports stars and doctors and you know, so you've got to see it to be it right. So sometimes it just takes one person to show you that what's possible and what you can do. And the other thing that I really want, I ended up with PTSD at the end of my policing career and
And I chose to not go down and I'm not against ⁓ medication where necessary, but I chose not to be medicated, which was a really tough thing to do. But one thing that was true in my mind, my intuition said, and my knowing said, I had to feel it to heal it. And so I was constantly reminding myself, I've got to feel it to heal it. I've got to feel it to heal it. And like, you know, like.
And that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. And for some of our babies and for, and I talk babies, I'm talking our babies, our kids, no matter what age they are, they're our babies. My daughter is always going to be my baby, right? And for some of our little people and for young people and teenagers, they don't realize.
if we're not helping them understand and like it's normal to feel sad, it's normal to, you know, like all of these emotions and all of these traumas that we go through throughout life because when your friends reject you or dump you or you're dealing with your first breakup or maybe you're being bullied, whatever it is, these are all trauma.
but it's also going to pass eventually. Sadly, I saw young people harming themselves and ending their lives because they didn't have the support network and they didn't understand that it was only a moment in time and it would pass.
Lael Stone (23:38)
Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
I was, yes, of course. Absolutely. And I think I often used to explain it to parents this way that we have to remember that most of us were raised in ways where feelings weren't okay. You know, when you made a mistake when you were young or you did something wrong or hit your brother or whatever it was, most of us would have got shamed. We would have got sent to our room. Maybe we were ignored. Maybe we were hit.
Kristi McVee (23:51)
Hmm.
Lael Stone (24:02)
most imprints around feeling our feelings is it's not safe. So we either have to push them down or we bury them deep, you know, and we bury them deep with drugs and alcohol and food and busyness and all the things, or we hold onto them and then they come out as aggression and anger and, you know, and as you said, you know, these kids who perhaps are coming through a system are usually children that have got pain and trauma and are not being seen and held and heard in the way they need because we know that that
Kristi McVee (24:06)
Yes.
Lael Stone (24:30)
is incredibly powerful for children that when they feel seen and heard and when they're allowed to express themselves in the ways that they need, that makes a massive difference for their sense of self-well-being and ability to navigate the tricky stuff. But when we don't have anything like that, then of course, you know, we often children are crying out for help, but we see a lot of challenging stuff that happens. And I say that parents all the time, you know, again, coming back to that piece of why this is tricky parenting at the moment.
Kristi McVee (24:43)
Mm.
Lael Stone (24:57)
The information that we're talking about these days was not topics that our parents would have had conversations around and certainly not our grandparents. They definitely weren't hearing about emotional intelligence or emotional literacy or trauma or, you know, releasing these feelings. It just wasn't around. It was all about survival. And so here we are having these conversations and having to reparent ourselves and relearn that it's safe for us to feel in order to hold space for our kids to feel.
Kristi McVee (25:09)
Yeah.
Mm.
Lael Stone (25:23)
because
when we can let our children know, hey, it's okay to cry, it's okay to get angry, it's not okay to hurt your brother, and I'm not gonna let you hurt our possessions, but it's okay for anger to move through your body and let's find a healthy way to do it. And it's okay to cry, crying is a wonderful thing, it's a beautiful, healthy release within us, and I wanna make it safe enough for you to do that. And when we can start creating those stories and imprints for our children, then they develop this emotional intelligence that says, feelings are not bad, I don't have to run away from them,
Kristi McVee (25:50)
Hmm.
Lael Stone (25:52)
I don't have to numb them. And I also don't have to take them out on somebody else. I can actually be with them. And I really acknowledge that, you know, going through PTSD, I have had a similar experience of going through PTSD and, very similarly going, I know the only way through is through, which means I have to feel this and it's going to suck. And it did. It sucked so bad, you know, and I keep trying to find the next modality to help me and fix me. I was like, just, you know, that didn't work. Like it was so much about.
Kristi McVee (26:07)
Yeah.
Don't ask.
Lael Stone (26:19)
having to be with myself and it just sat on top of a whole lot of other stuff that really needed to be dealt with at that time in my life. And the more that I could feel it and the more that I could lean into it, the more that it became then healing and actually turned into wisdom and understanding that a hundred percent. And created more capacity to be with that with others and with my children as well. That's what I think I really learned.
Kristi McVee (26:27)
Hmm.
Yeah. And patience and empathy and compassion and all of their things.
Yes.
Lael Stone (26:47)
is my, and I say this to parents often, our ability to be with our children's big feelings is usually related to how much we can be with our own feelings. So when we can't be with anger and we can't be with sadness in our kids, know, then usually the first place to start is well, where does that sit within us? And that's where we have to have compassion because for most of us that was not allowed. It was shamed. It was seen as bad or vulnerable or sensitive or too much.
So when we can learn to find those spaces within ourselves to own those places, then it gives us a greater capacity to meet that in others.
Kristi McVee (27:21)
Yeah. Did you find when your kids got to certain ages that you were then having like things bubble up that you were like, because for me, every part of my childhood trauma, when my daughter hit the age, everything bubbled up and I was like, why am I so explosive? Like, why am I've got no patience at the moment? And then it was like, that's why. And like, I don't think we talk about it enough because I
Lael Stone (27:42)
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Kristi McVee (27:47)
For me personally, people reach out to me, survivors reach out to me and they're like, I've just had a child and I've just remembered that I was sexually abused. I've just, my child is five and I'm freaking out and I'm like, how old were you when you were abused? know, like this is what, and this is, don't talk about enough because, you know, whether it's, know, sexual abuse, neglect, physical abuse, whatever it is, whatever abuse you've gone through, whatever trauma you've gone through, unfortunately.
The brain is very intelligent. It's protected you and kept you safe for a long time. So it suppresses and represses and it says, let's deal with this later. And then when you get to the age and usually when it's when we have kids, right, it's when we hit the all of sudden, boom, you're getting slapped in the face. You're wondering why you're exploding at your kids. And it's because obviously you're you're reliving, retraumatized, re whatever.
Lael Stone (28:31)
Hmm.
Kristi McVee (28:37)
It's a really weird thing to go through and I don't think we talk about it enough.
Lael Stone (28:42)
No, I, I, again, agree with you. This is going to be, I agree. I No, I, I see it all the time too. And it's not, it's not even just the big monumental experiences that we have, although it absolutely can be woken up as we become parents and particularly the age that our children are when those big things happen. But it's also the small things as well. Like a really common thing that I used to see a lot with it and, and still turns up a lot with dads that I work with.
Kristi McVee (28:46)
Hahaha! ⁓
Lael Stone (29:10)
is when they're five year olds, like, I hate you or you're a poo head or something like that. And then the father's like, dare you? And that's so disrespectful. And they get really charged with their five year old calling them a poo head. And so I go, okay, let's take a pause here. Like what's happening in your body in there? What are the words going through your head? And they'll say things like, how dare they? It's so disrespectful. And then usually the line that comes out is this, if I ever said that to my dad, I would have copped a whack, right? And I'm like,
And there it is, right? And so I say, what was it like when you were five? And he was like, well, I was never allowed to get angry and I was never allowed to get upset. And I was never allowed to say how I felt. And I was like, okay, so here's your five-year-old feeling safe enough on some level to say, hey, I'm really unhappy about this and this isn't fair. And he's trying to find the words that are most powerful that he knows to tell you how annoyed he is by calling you a poo head. And what happens in those moments is one, one part can often.
Kristi McVee (29:39)
Yeah.
Lael Stone (30:04)
rise up, which is the part that goes, my goodness, we project into the future and think, my God, is my kid going to be disrespectful? So that was often a thing that pops up. But usually the bigger reaction is I need to shut this down because when I was five and if I had spoken that way, I ever got hit, I got shamed, I got turned away from, I got rejected. Yeah, I got ignored, all those things. And that's painful.
Kristi McVee (30:22)
I got ignored.
Lael Stone (30:26)
And because we don't want to feel that, we don't want to feel the feelings that are sitting there. We try and shut it down right in front of us. So we power over in those moments. We yell louder. Yeah, we all have done that, I think, because we're human, right? Because we're human. And so we power over, we shut it down because it's really painful for us to be with what we didn't get. And as I would say to dads, so when we're feeling pretty centered and anchored and our kid comes towards us and says, you're a poo head and I hate you.
Kristi McVee (30:34)
I've done that. I've done that.
Ahem.
Hmm.
Lael Stone (30:54)
then what we can ideally do is just be like, hmm, that's interesting, right? My kids having some big feelings or I wonder what's going on for them. And we can meet it with some calm. We can meet it with playfulness. We can meet it with like, ⁓ you must hate me so much to call me a poo head. ⁓ mate, do you know what? I love you even when you hate me, right? And then often your child will get angry at, which is not a bad thing. They've got to let out their feelings or they'll start giggling and laugh and then connections restored. But we need to be anchored enough in ourselves to be able to meet it with that.
Kristi McVee (31:12)
Yeah.
Man.
Lael Stone (31:22)
And yet
when we have our own pain points or wounds that sit there, that is usually when we get activated. And for me with my kids, when they were little, I was pretty grounded most of the time. There wasn't big charges, but when my kids became teenagers, that's when all my stuff came up. was like, I remember thinking, my God, I have to go through puberty all over again. Like, and I was just like,
Kristi McVee (31:37)
Not sure.
I didn't even realize I was
going back to being a teenager. became a teenager. Like I was acting like a teenager. my daughter would like trigger me and I would start acting like a teenager. it's only now like, I was like, and someone said to me, you two act like sisters. And I was like, what do mean? They're like, ⁓ don't you think it's weird that you're like literally fighting back like you are?
Lael Stone (31:49)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. It's so confronting, isn't it? And I think this, our kids keep us so humble. Like I just think our children are the best teachers. Like we think we're there to guide and teach them, but they are here to teach us. You know, they come along and they're like, Hey, you got all this crap here. You need to sort out. So I'm just going to push the exact right buttons to help you look at it. Hopefully you will look at it. And if you don't, I'm going to keep getting louder and louder about that bit. So you do look at it and
Kristi McVee (32:17)
there.
Lael Stone (32:34)
Whenever parents would come to me with any issues with their kids, I'd like, well, tell me what's going on with your child. And then the next question is, and what's going on with you? How does that, how do you respond to that? What feelings come up for you? What are the thoughts that are there? Because usually sometimes it is, we just need to tweak stuff for kids' environment or meet their needs or listen a bit more or have more connection. But a lot of the time it is connected to us as a parent, particularly if we're getting triggered, then that is usually about us. And so the invitation is to look at what is mine here in this bigger picture of what's going on.
Kristi McVee (32:41)
Yeah.
Lael Stone (33:03)
And it's not easy to do because we haven't been modeled how to do it. And it's also confronting. Like nobody wakes up and goes, geez, a great day to deal with my childhood trauma today. If we just don't, we're like, I'm just going to push it down as far as I can until you can't ignore it. And I think having kids is just like the biggest mirror in your life. And it's so interesting that I've got three kids, ⁓ oldest son and two girls, and all of them have bought different qualities to me around my own story. And equally my husband as well.
Kristi McVee (33:08)
That is. ⁓
Lael Stone (33:30)
and it's, I guess when you're willing or you can lean into it, can be so transformational because then you actually have a clean and healthy relationship with them, which is what we want. But God, it's messy. can be so messy. So messy.
Kristi McVee (33:38)
you
I
tell you what, if I had like, I was 26, 27 when my daughter was born, if I had waited another 10 years, different parenting, different styles, if I had had a child now, different person again, like as a parent, every child gets a different version of you as every, you know, where you're at, where you're emotionally at, like it's just so interesting. I feel, and I think it's Garbamate that says no two children received the same, like.
have the same experience in the home. you know, when your child comes to you and says, you didn't do this for me, and you're like, yes, I was always there. But actually, maybe what they perceived and, you know, that that actual versus perceived pace, like I was always saying to my daughter and husband, is it actual or is it perceived because we perceive things from our hurt and our feelings. Sometimes it's not actually what's happening.
Lael Stone (34:30)
Mm-hmm.
Kristi McVee (34:33)
They hate me for it, but I'm very good at pointing it out to others. Not so great with myself.
Lael Stone (34:34)
100%. Yeah. But it's so
true. What you're saying is so true because, and I say this to parents all the time when they're sitting there and they go, Oh my God, I'm to mess it up. I'm like, of course you're going to mess it up. We're all going to mess it up. Like where, even when you think you're doing the best as parenting, there'll be one thing that your child will come back with and goes, remember when you did that and you're like that, that wasn't even bad. Like I did this other thing. And, and the reality is,
Kristi McVee (34:58)
Yeah
Lael Stone (35:01)
You know, we want what we want out of this whole parenting gig is for our kids to feel safe enough to turn around and say, Hey, that didn't feel good for me. So what you did with your daughter was so beautiful where you were like, Hey, here's just an overall apology for all the big things. But I want you to know that you can come and talk to me about it when it, when and who to that is the goal that we're looking for because life is going to happen. We know that bad things are going to happen. We cannot control it all.
Kristi McVee (35:09)
Yeah.
Yeah, when you're ready.
Lael Stone (35:27)
You know, our kids are going to get rejected. They're going to get their feelings hurt. They're going to get excluded. They're going to get their heart broken. Like stuff is going to happen because that's what it is being a human. Unless you lock them in a room and leave them there and that's not healthy for them either. Right. They're going to have to experience what life is. And I really do believe our goal is to make it safe enough for them to bring it to us. Our goal is to say, Hey, no matter what goes on, I've got your back. I'm here.
Let's work through it. And so that includes the things that I do with you, you know, and I remember saying from a very young age to our kids, both my husband and I would say to our kids, if we ever speak to you in a way that doesn't feel like it's coming from our heart, or we speak to you, just disrespectfully, we give you full permission to call us out on it. And they did, and they would, and it was like, ⁓ I mean, it's stung at the time, but gosh, it was good because they were like, you are not speaking from your heart or you are acting like, you know, Papa, or you are, you know,
Kristi McVee (36:12)
It hurts the most.
Lael Stone (36:22)
They would call it and it stops you in your tracks, but it was also like, well, we really need to take a break here and actually calm down and tune in and see what's actually happening here. Because what we want is for our kids to call us out on our crap, but also to feel safe enough to bring the biggest things to us. Because we know again, when bad stuff happens and when we need healing, it is the support of the ones around us that make it safe enough for us to feel what we need to feel to process what needs to be processed so we can move.
more towards that space of safety. those leaning into the hard stuff, as you said, takes a lot of courage to be parent. Like that, that's it. That's a hundred percent it.
Kristi McVee (37:00)
Yeah,
yeah, it's very, and look, we don't get a manual. One child can be one way, another child can be another way. I feel like, like you said, your children come to give you like so many lessons to put a spotlight on so many things. And I mean, it's the biggest personal development you could ever have is having kids, but no one warns you. I don't know, like.
If we knew what we knew, would you go through all that? No one would do it. know. I don't know. I'm very much about, you know, autonomy. have said to my daughter from probably last three or four years, if you don't want to have kids, don't ever feel like you have to. I'm never going to pressure you to have children. I'm not going to pressure you to get married. I mean, these are just all things that were put on me. So I'm like coming back to her and going, don't ever feel like you have to do something. You do you just.
Lael Stone (37:22)
No one would do it. ⁓
Kristi McVee (37:47)
If there is growing kids in the future, please wait at least 10 years so I can have some time. Because I want to be involved. But yeah, think parenting is like the toughest job, but the most rewarding one. I think what we're seeing, I don't know about you, but personally, I didn't have a lot of respect as a child. I didn't have a lot of, you know, like no conversations, no respect. I was treated like I was, you know,
I was just there. I wasn't actually considered in anything. And when I was looking at children and the ones that struggled or the ones that were being hurt and harmed the most were the ones that no one was really giving them a voice because that's what predators and people
look for people who want to harm kids. They're looking for those children that don't have anyone to protect them and don't have a voice. Now, we're not just in that space, but when I looked at the young teens and the people who are being exploited by older people, like by adults, but also by their partners, you know, they're the ones who didn't have, didn't believe they had a voice. And so in my mind, I remember thinking how we help our kids, first of all, be happy, healthy,
and you know, you're respectful to themselves first, but others is to give them a voice, give them a place to be seen, heard and otherwise. And then we teach them about healthy relationships, consent. We teach them what safe adults do. We teach them what, you know, when you're respected in your own home, you won't tolerate it when someone else does it outside of your home. You will walk away, will push friendships away, you will...
you will push relationships away because they don't respect you. And so you know that you don't have to deal with that. And that's what I see in teens and young people. Everything we do from little babies is to prepare them for adulthood.
Lael Stone (39:35)
Absolutely. I said to parents all the time, the goal is not to raise good boys and good girls, because actually good boys and good girls are usually compliant children and compliant children won't set boundaries. They often don't step, don't say that's not okay. They often will go along with whoever's, know, saying we should do these things. Like the goal is to raise children that are deeply connected to themselves. They'd actually say, no, that is not okay. Or I don't like that. Or
Kristi McVee (39:43)
Yeah.
Lael Stone (40:01)
express their feelings in a way, you know, and I mean, that to me is what we ideally want to do. We grew up as compliant children, like that was the narrative, you must be good, you know, and that was a product of our behaviorism paradigm that we've been in for a long time. We reward you when you're good, we punish you, you know, when you're bad, we withdraw love when you're bad. And so of course, we create this narrative in our head that says, well, in order to survive, I need love and attachment. So therefore I must be good. must, you know,
push away what I deeply want or desire and not speak up for what I need because that driving force to be loved and accepted is so big that I will sacrifice myself in order to do that. And it's why I feel really, really passionate about punishments and rewards and talking about that in a whole other way. You we are at my school, we are a non-punitive discipline school. We do not put kids' names on the boards. We don't use punishments and rewards. We have lots of boundaries and we have lots of guidelines that we have to work with because
Kristi McVee (40:36)
Yes.
Lael Stone (40:56)
Whenever there's a group of people, know, there's stuff that we have to work with and agree with. But punishments, usually what they do is incite shame within us. And then when we feel shameful, then the, you know, the inner voice has often become things like, I'm not good enough or I'm bad or that kind of stuff. Yeah, all of that. And then I know the argument is, but you know, people need to be held accountable. Yes, they do. But there's also this bigger picture where, where was it that we decided that in order to make someone do better, we must make them feel worse first.
Kristi McVee (41:10)
I'm not lovable, yeah.
Lael Stone (41:24)
because it does not work with children, it doesn't. And I'm sure that you know that anybody that offends or does stuff is usually because they have their own abuse, trauma story there as well. And I'm not excusing any of that at all. Not at all, but I think.
Kristi McVee (41:37)
No, I
100 % agree with you. if we looked at the if we went into a prison and looked at everyone that was in that prison and asked them what happened to you, we would be like most of the people and I am sorry to cut you off. Most of the people I dealt with in a child sexual abuse capacity investigating their abuse had
alcohol and drug substance abuse problems. had family domestic violence problems, like situations. had, you know, whatever mental health challenges. They were in the judicial system. They were in, you know, every one of them. And this is the
This is what happens when we don't have connection and conversations and protection for our kids, prevention for our kids. So apologies for cutting you off, but I 100 % agree. And it made it really hard to be a police officer when I realized that.
Lael Stone (42:19)
Yeah. No, I know.
But
yeah, because I think we've, it's been around for a long time, isn't it? Right and wrong. And, and I agree, there is stuff that is not okay. And, and yet when I kind of look at it through the lens of parenting and I'm looking at it from, yes, how do we create change for our future? Well, when our kids mess up, which they will, there's always a reason for our kids behavior. You know, children are often waving a red flag saying, I'm not getting my needs met.
You're not seeing me, but if I hit my brother in the head, then maybe, you you will, or if I do this big thing, it's because I feel so overwhelmed. My nervous system's fried. I've had a massive day at school. I don't know how to process all of that. So I'm to come home and I'm going to throw that thing. You know, our job as adults is to keep looking behind the behavior to go. And I really do believe this is nice. Such thing as a bad child. There are just kids that are not getting their needs met. And there's kids that are not being seen or connected to in the way that they need.
Kristi McVee (42:55)
Notice me.
Lael Stone (43:18)
And so then when I look at this punishment reward thing of like when kids mess up, which they do, especially our teenagers, you know, when we come in hard on them and we ground them and we take stuff away when we're often just pushing whatever is that reason down deeper. Whereas when we can kind of lean in and help them take accountability, look at what's really going on for them, try and meet what that need is sitting there. That is often when we see shifts and changes actually happen. Now I also know that that's such a big ask because
Most of us have never experienced that in our lives. Most of us have just experienced shame when we've done something wrong. Most of us have been told we are wrong most of our lives. This is a big stretch and I get this, but I think as we probably both agree, the more we can keep talking about it, the more we can have conversations about it, the more we open up the doorways, particularly when it comes to children, of changing these imprints and stories around how can we meet this in a different way so that we can actually...
help to develop humans that have a sense of self accountability, worthiness, knowing that they're okay. So that next time they do mess up, they can take accountability or they stop and go, Hey, it's probably not good to harm someone else. So we start to see the shift because I really see this with the parents I work with, my own children, those kinds of things. When there is emotional intelligence on board, they don't want to hurt others. It doesn't feel good. They don't want to hurt the planet. They don't want to do things that are really
painful to others, they are more willing to actually lean in towards connection and love. And that I think is how we create the change and it starts in the family.
Kristi McVee (44:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, 1000%. Like what, the unmet needs thing, we just didn't, like it's finally being spoken about, but unmet needs is one of the biggest things that will, like when kids don't feel seen, heard, trusted, all of the things, they, and you know, they're going through big things like.
My poor husband, was ADHD from birth. He was called seek and destroy as a child. And he was just so very hyperactive. so his family were like, you're bad. So that's at 45 years old, that's still his inner voice. I'm bad. I'm not allowed to have big emotions. I'm not allowed to think. He's doing the work now, right? Finally doing the work, yay. But at the same time,
when you hear that, like who wants their kid to go through that and be that and think that when they get an adult? I know his parents didn't do it on purpose. They were just following the same framework that they had. But you know, that is what it ends up with. You know, that's the voice we hear. That's the voice that your kids are going to hear if you say to them that they're naughty or bad. And I had a five year old
school me on this. This five-year-old said to me, there's no bad kids, there's just kids that are learning. And I was like, I know, and I just about, I was like, oh my gosh, you're so right. But I always said to my daughter, you know, cause she's very compassionate and very.
Lael Stone (46:05)
Nope.
Kristi McVee (46:15)
empathetic and she feels things deeply and when she was going through things, I would always remind her and this is one of the reasons why we need to, how we keep that connection but always why it's so important is because your kids are feeling things and if they're alone in that, their voice is going to be very loud that they don't deserve things, that they're unlovable. But I used to say to her, there's nothing you can do or say that will ever make me stop loving you. And.
even in the moments when she was screaming at me and having a tantrum and I was triggered, some of the ways that I actually helped her get through it and me get through it was a hug. I'd be like, do you need a hug? And even now at 18, she's like, can't you see I need a hug? And I'm like, oh, it's okay. I'll hug you, but you need to ask me for it because I'm not going to hug you without your consent.
Lael Stone (46:59)
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, beautiful. ⁓
Kristi McVee (47:02)
But at
the same time, she's like, you can see I'm upset and I need a hug. But you know, just just, you know, letting your kids know that they just it's okay. Nothing they do or say will ever be, you know, and sometimes I used to I had to I had this epiphany, I don't know what it was, that behavior and the person the different things. So I used to tell my daughter what you do and who you are two separate things. And so when you act, when you behave a certain way,
Yes, that behavior is not great, but that isn't who you are. You the person are amazing. You're lovable. You're the sunshine in my day. Like don't ever doubt that. But hey, this is not so great right now. So pulling those two apart can sometimes, that helped me because yeah.
Lael Stone (47:40)
Yeah.
It's such
beautiful insights. And my last book I wrote, which is called On Your Story, which is all about the imprints that we have as children. And in you saying that, like I know that there'll be people sitting there whose imprints are really around, you know, if you're good, then you're worthy. If you're achieving, then you're enough.
We must get the best grades to be there certain things like so much of our childhood imprints from our generation were very much around success equals yeah, the way you look, how much money you make, what you do, how fast you can run all those kinds of things. And doing those imprints are tricky. And we then look at our children and often those unconscious thoughts tip in, right? So when our kid isn't behaving the way we want or
Kristi McVee (48:12)
performance.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Lael Stone (48:27)
they're messing up in a certain way or they're not achieving on the sports field what we do, this part gets activated in us. It's like, and it's often deeply unconscious, which just says, that's unsafe because in my family of origin, you belong by being like this. And it's often all about this unconscious loyalty we have to this family imprint that actually often doesn't even serve us. And when we can begin to ask ourselves as questions, like, where's this thinking coming from?
Kristi McVee (48:37)
you
Lael Stone (48:53)
you know, who would be unhappy in my family of origin if my kid did do this? Well, there's a bit of a clue that maybe this is connected to something that's bigger than what I'm seeing right here. And I think they are such powerful steps of consciousness for us as adults to realize these bigger, deeper threads that sometimes we carry through our lineage. And then we often pass on to our kids, which, and as you say, beautifully, our kids are standing there going, I don't want that one. Like, you know, I'm throwing that back at you, but.
Kristi McVee (49:11)
yeah.
Lael Stone (49:20)
The invitation is to often get a bit more curious as to what am I making this mean? What is stories coming up from here? Why am I so activated around this? And often when we can kind of look a little bit backwards, we can see where those stories and those imprints come from to, you know, in what's asking to often be transformed and changed within it.
Kristi McVee (49:39)
That's been my biggest challenge with an older teen is that sometimes stuff would come out of my mouth and my daughter would challenge it. And then I would go, actually, no, I don't agree with that. Why did I just say that? But if you have the connection and the relationship with your child and they feel safe to say how they feel and they call you out, you actually get the opportunity to have those.
stories, those unwritten rules that we have in society to be challenged. If you don't allow that in your family and you don't allow that in with your children, your children can't call you out and you're passing on the same rules and ultimately they're going to have the same challenges or worse or better. I don't know but my daughter called me out on something it was in regards to she was going somewhere and I was like like she saw my face and I was like and she goes what you're to say something about what I'm wearing?
And I went, oh, and she goes, I should be allowed, and she gave me a lecture and I sat there and I took it. And I was like, you know what, you're right. And I apologized. said, you know what, so thank you for calling me out. It's hard to hear, but thank you for calling me out. I was just thinking what was taught to me. And so I'm so sorry. I will try really hard to never ever make it obvious that that's what I'm thinking.
Lael Stone (50:39)
Yeah.
Yes.
⁓ I love that you did that. mean, is so... It is, it is, but I just, I just love how vulnerable and real and honest you are within that because I mean, what you've just set up there is just so profound for your daughter, not only that you're like owning your piece in it, but you're actually stopping the, the imprint there. You're actually going, whoa.
Kristi McVee (50:58)
I mean repair is the best thing, right?
Lael Stone (51:17)
Okay, that's mine. I own it. That's not yours. Cause she's just like, I'm handing this back to you. mean, that is so powerful. And you know, in those moments where we think we're messing up as parents, cause we all do. And we think it's really hard. I think we have to remember those moments where we are willing to be vulnerable, where we're willing to repair, where we're willing to own what is our crap. Like, I just don't think we can ever know the ripple effects of how powerful that is in creating change.
Kristi McVee (51:41)
I know. I hope, look, I hope people listening realize that like this is none of this is easy. Like, like honestly, the amount of times I've cried in my cupboard, because I feel like I'm failing, I feel like I fucked up basically. I remember saying to my husband, I failed when I left the police because I'd been in the police for 10 years. She was two when I joined 12 when I left.
Lael Stone (51:47)
No.
them.
Kristi McVee (52:03)
I was like, I've wasted her life in the police. Like this is how I was feeling at the time, right? Because I was going through this huge mental health challenges, everything I was reassessing my whole purpose in life, et cetera. I should have been here more, I should have done this. And my daughter came in and was like, what's wrong, mum? And I was like, I just feel like I've failed you.
And I was very honest with her about my emotions. I didn't ever hide when I was struggling with her. I didn't put it on her. I didn't make it her problem, but I always said, I'm struggling right now. Mom's struggling right now. I'm just feeling some big feelings. I'm not sure how to deal with them. I'd really appreciate a hug if you want to give me one. And she, anyway, I said, look, I'm feeling like I have failed because I haven't been around for you. And I feel like I've put my work first before you. And you know what she said to me?
What are you talking about? You're always there. And it was the thing that I needed to hear in the moment. So even though I felt like I wasn't there, she obviously, and this is what I say to parents, they don't notice when you're not there. They notice when you show up and when you're present and they notice if you're there for them when they need you. know, when you don't talk over them, when you do sit and have those conversations. I don't know about your kids, but my daughter used to talk my ear off for hours at night time when I was laying in bed with her.
Lael Stone (52:51)
No.
Yeah.
Yes.
Kristi McVee (53:17)
It was our little tradition, like we'd lay together. And then it got later and later and later. And I was like, Mom needs to go to bed.
Lael Stone (53:22)
Can
we start this at seven o'clock instead of 10 o'clock?
Kristi McVee (53:25)
Yeah, because 10
o'clock till midnight is not cool. you've got and like one of our rules in our house was every brain needs sleep. And so we always had a sleep routine very early on that she still does today. She's like, need sleep, brains need sleep. But I think with regards to that, I just I think if we own it, we speak it out loud, we don't put it onto them, but we share it with them like they're on the journey with us. We can't hide our feelings from them because we it comes out in other ways.
Lael Stone (53:33)
Yeah.
Beautiful. Yeah, yeah.
Hmm, totally. And I think it's the, one of the big things I often will say to groups of parents, you know, when you think about your own childhood, did any of you have parents who came in and really owned their feelings, apologized for how they behave, really took accountability for when they yelled, like rarely anyone puts their hand up, right? And I say to them, what would have that meant to you? You know, and then people often unpack well,
Kristi McVee (54:04)
next one.
Lael Stone (54:17)
meant I wasn't wrong, meant that there would have been more connection, means I would have been able to make more mistakes, take risks, all those kinds of things. And I think that again is a really beautiful reflective thing to think about. Often what we didn't get, well then what can we do differently? What did we deeply need when we were kids? What did you need when you're upset? What did you need when you were scared? What did you need when you made a mistake? How did you want your parents to meet you in that? Well, that is often the guide of what can we do.
Kristi McVee (54:40)
And then.
Mm.
Lael Stone (54:43)
because
it is hard when we haven't been showing this to know how to be with big feelings and to repair and all the stuff that we're talking about. It is tricky, but a starting place is to sit with, well, what did I need and what did I not get? Can I bring that? Can I bring that to my kids? Even the smallest little steps towards it is where we start to shift and create the changes, but it's such big work. It's big, big, big work. You know, and I always come back to just how much compassion we need for ourselves as we're doing this.
Kristi McVee (54:56)
Yep. Yep.
So powerful.
Lael Stone (55:13)
because as you've mentioned, we're so good at beating ourselves up. We're so good at giving ourselves a hard time. We're all going to have moments where we think we're messing it up. And really the answer to all of that is compassion. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got right now. And how can I do it differently tomorrow if it doesn't feel good? Now, sometimes that means getting support. Sometimes it means going and speaking to someone. Sometimes it's listening to podcasts, it's reading more books, it's...
Kristi McVee (55:26)
Mm.
Yep.
Lael Stone (55:36)
it's being around the languaging and it's listening. So it becomes part of your narrative that that's how we begin to change it. Yeah. And going back what you said before, our kids all have different parents at different ages. Like I was 25 and I had my son as well. I was a baby. I was like a baby having a baby. I like, I just look back and think my son is so robust because he basically had to survive us because we had no idea.
Kristi McVee (55:42)
Hmm.
Yes.
No idea,
yeah.
Lael Stone (55:59)
No,
we're no friends that had kids. We're literally just making it up as we go, which on some level taught me to trust my intuition, but really no clues. And then having my third child eight years later, she got a completely different mom. And I just think also too, I can't look back at that 25 year old and give her a hard time. She was just doing all she could at the time to survive. What I can do is bring a whole lot of forgiveness and kindness to her and know that in those first eight or nine years of parenting, if I did mess up, well,
Kristi McVee (56:15)
No.
Lael Stone (56:26)
It is never too late to repair and hold space for our kids to bring us what they need when the time's right. So exactly like that conversation you had with your daughter, it's never too late at 18. It's not too late at 10. I mean, I work with adults that would love their 70 year old parent to sit down at the table and say, I am deeply sorry if I didn't meet your needs. Like, do you know how healing that would be for some people? So it is never, ever too late to be able to turn to our kids and say,
Hey, I'm here and I'm listening and I'm willing for you to share with me what's felt painful and hard. And I mean, that's a big conversation. You've to be ready for it. our job is listen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you've got to be willing to sit there and say, I'm really sorry that I didn't meet your needs in that time. You what do you need to hear from me now? What can I do differently? I mean, they are really big, powerful conversations to have when we are ready.
Kristi McVee (56:57)
Yep.
Yeah, you got to be ready to hear what comes out because if you open the door, you can't shut it because you're just doing more damage.
Hmm.
Lael Stone (57:21)
but my goodness, they can be healing. At any age, they can be really, really healing. And I think when we're looking at raising our kids, and particularly, I know a lot of parents are like, I feel like I've messed it up, or I've done this, done that. I say to them, every day is a new day for connection. Every day is a day where you can go into their room, ask them what they're into, listen, don't tell them to pick their towel up off the floor, or just be there, be present, have a little bit of playfulness, and then leave.
And then there's times when we can sit and listen to their big feelings, do a lot of nodding. And there's times we can go in and have those big conversations and say, hey, tell me more, tell me about what hasn't felt good. And I think they can be some of the most powerful connective things that we can do for our children for no matter what has happened in the past. I think we can start those steps towards healing in a really powerful way.
Kristi McVee (57:56)
Yeah.
That's amazing, Lyle. I 1,000 % agree with you. I think it sounds like we're the same parent, but we're not. It sounds like we've had our own realizations in different ways throughout the...
throughout the childhood process and the parenting process. So Lael, how does everyone find out about your books and you and where to follow you? Because I think I actually watched one of your reels the other day about how you promised yourself this year that you were gonna slow down and that you, and with space you find more things to do and you'd like having to say, no, no, no. And do you know what? It was like literally hearing myself speak.
Lael Stone (58:42)
Yeah. Yeah. Let me just tell you, it's a really interesting journey that went at the moment. mean, crazy problem to have, right? To just try and slow down a little bit. and I can slow down, but I'm just fighting it like a big time because I'm used to achieving and doing. And so yeah, that's my mission at the moment. so people can find me at laelstone.com.au. It's the good thing about having a weird name is I'm the only Lael Stone when you Google it. So I turn up.
Kristi McVee (58:51)
Very lucky.
It's very funny.
Lael Stone (59:06)
⁓ so got a website, like I've got courses, my books and stuff around there, or I'm on socials as well. and my new podcast is called Humans Being. Where we just have beautiful conversations like this about the human behind each of us and how we've gotten to where we are in our journey. So yeah, yeah. I mean, I, this has been so beautiful, Kristi. I do feel like we're maybe the same person, ⁓ because everything that you say, like, yeah, that's me. Yeah, that's it. ⁓ but it's so beautiful to connect with someone who's.
Kristi McVee (59:11)
Yeah. And your new podcast.
Lael Stone (59:34)
Well, I just think speaks the same language, you know, and is doing that beautiful workout in the world that it's wanting to make a difference and make it a bit safer for humans everywhere. And, you know, so I just really, I see you, I see you, honey.
Kristi McVee (59:36)
Hmm.
I honor you too. I honor
you too. And I think it's just through experience, like literally. And when you spend a lot of time around a lot of different people, I mean, you've been around a lot of parents and a lot of different, like different age groups and stages and et cetera. It's being around people and seeing the things that people go through that helps you expand that knowledge to know that everyone is just doing their best. We're all trying really hard, but
What's limiting us is that if we don't have exposure to some of this stuff, then of course we're not going to understand it and it's going to be big and hard, but the more we expose to it and talk about it and have conversations, the better it will be. So thank you so much. I will make sure everything's in the show notes for everyone and then they can find you and.
follow your own podcast, Humans Being. And I honestly, I really appreciate the work you've done and you're an inspiration. I can't believe you were a child party, ⁓ you know, like entertainer. ⁓
Lael Stone (1:00:44)
I swear
there's some home videos somewhere out there on VHS tapes of me dressed up as a fairy, like you know from like 25 years ago. They're going to come back and haunt me at some point I'm sure. Thank you.
Kristi McVee (1:00:53)
I think you should find them and release them. Thanks, Lyle.
Kristi McVee (1:00:58)
If today's conversation stirred something in you, that's the point, because so much of what Lail talked about isn't just about our kids, it's about us. The things we were never taught, the feelings we were never allowed to have, and the really good news, it's not too late, not for our kids and not for ourselves. Lael's work is rooted in connection to our children, to ourselves and to each other. And that ripple effect she talks about, it's real. Every conversation you choose to have.
Every feeling you let your child have, every time you repair, it matters more than you know. You'll find all of Lael's details in the show notes, her books and her podcast. Humans Being. Go and give her a follow, she's the real deal. Thanks for being here and I'll see you in the next one.
