Kristi McVee (00:00)
Welcome back to the conversations with Kristy. I am your host Kristy McVeigh, former detective specialist child interviewer and a child safety educator. And today I'm wrapping up season 2026 with someone who I genuinely believe every parent needs to hear.
Dr. Vanessa LaPointe has a doctorate in psychology. She's a bestselling author and an internationally recognized parenting expert with over 25 years of experience working with children and families.
I first saw Dr. LaPointe in the scene documentary where she actually made me cry a little bit because she's such a grounded and calm voice in the parenting space. today's conversation, we go deep. talk about why so many of us are parenting from our own unhealed wounds, why your triggers are never really about your child and what it looks like to truly repair when you've got it wrong. also get into the 10 years, why this is the time to show up more, not less, and why doing your own inner work is the most important thing you can do for your kids.
one hit close to home for me and I think it will for you too. Please share if you think that this could help another parent in their parenting journey. Let's get into it.
Kristi McVee (00:59)
Hello and welcome back to Conversations with Kristi podcast. Well, what a year it's been. This is actually episode 21 for 2026 and this will be the end of this season. I didn't tell you Dr. Vanessa La Pointe that you were the last one for the year, but I tell you what, I couldn't have ended on a better guest. So I know that...
I told you just a second ago that I saw you in scene and I was like, this woman gets it because parenting is a hard gig, especially when we haven't had, we don't have a guidebook. No one tells us what, and we're going off old stories and what our parents did, right? So when I saw you in scene and I got to know you more through your social media, I was like, this woman, this, this.
person is like who I need to talk to on the podcast. So thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast and just, I don't know, just take it like you're in Canada. I'm in Western Australia. Like the world is so small, but it's so big. And yeah, thank you so much.
Vanessa Lapointe (01:59)
I'm honored to be here and I
love that we can stand together and do good work in the world.
Kristi McVee (02:04)
you
Yes, so, so good. And I think parents are just screaming out for all of the knowledge and all of the things that this generation of parents more than I know how I felt about parenting. Like I just didn't want to screw up and I didn't want to stuff up and I didn't want to do what I my parents had did basically. And then so that reports so much anxiety and then so much guilt. And I think that's what a lot of parents are feeling like they just desperately want to do it well and then feel guilty.
when they feel like they haven't done it well. And I see that a lot. I get a lot of parents messaging me saying, I'm anxious, I'm petrified, I'm terrified, am I stuffing this up? And I'm sure you see the same things.
Vanessa Lapointe (02:45)
Yes, and you know, I think it's an interesting time. I mean, it's an interesting time to be alive. Never mind an interesting time to try and raise little humans into grown people. And I often reflect on my grandma who's long since left this illusion. She would be horrified to know what I do for a living. She'd be like, wait.
Like, what do mean the people need to know how to parent their children? We've always parented children. Nobody needs special lessons. Like she would have just been like, what, this is crazy. And as I think on that, and then I reflect on, you know, my parenting journey, my boys are 19 and 22 now. And then I think about parents who have littles now, you know, 10 and under. We are in the information age, which means that as a parent, you are at the end of a fire hose of information about
Kristi McVee (03:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (03:35)
Do it this way, gentle parenting, respectful parenting, conscious parenting, faffo parenting, blah blah parenting, like everybody's got an opinion. And I have a doctoral degree in this area. I've practiced in this field for 25 years. And even I sometimes look in and all that and I'm like, what? Like what does that even mean? So I cannot imagine.
Kristi McVee (03:52)
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (03:56)
being in the throes of having little people who are still so incredibly dependent on you and then you're trying to like distill all of this information to figure out, okay, this is the way we're supposed to say the thing. This is how we react to the thing. You know, it's a really overwhelming time. And I think for a lot of folks, the result is that we just kind of do this. And we hope that it all works out for the best.
Kristi McVee (04:18)
I 100 % agree. And I think I keep saying to parents when I do presentations and when I, can't stuff this up. All you can do is learn and change and make better choices next time. Like as long as you with, you know, I think it comes down to a lot of us weren't taught to like sit with ourselves and our values and like, what are your values? What's your important parts in your family? How do you want your family to be structured and what's important?
because when I sat, when my background's obviously policing and detective, and I saw what happens when people don't understand exactly what's important to them, and then they lose their way, right?
I often say you can't ⁓ stuff this up because our kids are so resilient, they're so forgiving and all they want is you, like connection with you and love from you and all they need is the necessities of life like food, shelter, education, love and they need those things and then the rest is just a negotiation.
Vanessa Lapointe (05:15)
Yeah, yeah, it's
brilliant. And the tricky thing is, I think for a lot of us, we don't know what our value system is. We don't know what we really want to like gift our children and the experience of raising them, because we parent as we were parented.
Kristi McVee (05:33)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (05:34)
And that though, you you can have the degree and read the books and do all of the things. The truth of the matter is your behaviors, your, the emotional experiences that will come up in you, the triggers that you will feel that you will then revisit upon your children. All of those things live in the subterranean world. They're not part of the cognitive mind that we actively.
think through. They're things that live in our cells and live in our biology and live in our programming. And I think it can make it really challenging to be like, okay, wait, I want to change this. But I don't know what I want to change because I don't even know what this is. And it becomes this whole new exploration of who am I? Where is it that I have come from? And who is my child? And where is it that we are heading together in order to be able to understand all of the ins and outs?
Kristi McVee (06:10)
Yeah.
Yeah, if you had of asked my grandparents or my parents, they would be like, and my dad was older, like he was in these forties when I was born. And I grew up with older parents who, you know, like do as I say, not as I do. like, you know, respect your elders and don't talk back and all of the things. like you're, you were punished for just having thought and feelings and emotions. So, you know, as a child, I learned to suppress a lot of that and to just do what made me safe and happy or everyone else happy, not myself. So as a.
as a parent of a young girl, I was like, I remember this really interesting moment. She was about three weeks old and I looked down at her and I was breastfeeding. I was like, I'm responsible to get this person to adulthood. Like it was like a moment. And then I was like, how do I do that? You know, like it was, you know, this moment of panic. And then I was like, and I remember ringing my mom.
and I didn't grow up with my mom because my hair and my dad's separated and I went with my dad at like six, seven, really important age, right? And I remember ringing her saying, but how do you help them become like, you know, independent and strong-willed and confident and, you know, so that they don't feel like they, you know, like I was, what I was trying to get at was how do I help my baby become an adult and not traumatize them?
Vanessa Lapointe (07:39)
not ruin her in the process. Yeah, and you know the challenge, Christy, is it wasn't just that we were punished in ways that were really egregious. know, most of the punishments that people from my generation, your generation, and I would say even people who are parenting today, the punishments were all about how do we separate?
and we use the absence of connection to control the behavior. So we will hurt you by smacking you, or we will send you away to your room or to a timeout, all of which involves this kind of emotional separation. And we weren't being punished just for the behaviors and the emotions that we came up with. If we drill down underneath that, what we were actually being punished for was the act of showing up as a human. Because little kids are meant to
Kristi McVee (08:05)
That's
Vanessa Lapointe (08:28)
shout and melt down and bite and throw things and not share and call you poo-poo bum-bum head and think you're the worst, you know, and then they become teenagers and that becomes even more colorful. That's developmentally typical stuff that we need to go through as children in order to be able to flex the developmental muscle and go and grow as nature intended. And so what in fact happened is we weren't allowed to actually feel
Kristi McVee (08:45)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (08:55)
the feelings, we definitely weren't allowed to express said feelings. And then in addition to that, we had to curtail everything human in order to fit in this sort of straight and narrow acceptable line. And the end result, if you look around the world today, has been fantastic. You know, we have, I mean, a generation of men who are incredibly at the effect of what we have done to them. We have a generation of women.
Kristi McVee (09:13)
No.
Vanessa Lapointe (09:22)
who are incredibly at the effect of what we have done to them. And I think we're in this kind of shift, this messy middle of trying to figure out, okay, where did it all come from? What does it mean? And most importantly, how do we begin to walk forward into something that feels more whole and more inclusive and more peaceful?
Kristi McVee (09:41)
Thanks.
Yeah, you just made when you were describing that you were just explaining the transition, you know, when you're giving birth and there's that transition period, you're not allowed to push and you've got to wait. And it's the most uncomfortable part, you're literally in pain waiting. I know for the men listening, cause I do have some, but there's this like timeframe where it's like you're in this pause, this really weird.
place and it hurts and you're not allowed to push but you feel like you have to. I feel like this is where we are right now in society in this really weird transitional space and yeah I think a lot can be said about the fact that we haven't been allowed to feel and behavior is a form of language like kids show through behavior what they can't say.
Vanessa Lapointe (10:25)
Yeah, and little kids, mean, arguably some adults don't actually have a well-developed language to explain their internal world because you have to actually be able to have access to the ability to observe your own mind in order to be able to access even begin to access language to explain what's happening in here. You can't sit in observance of your own mind until you're seven, eight, nine, 10 years old.
Kristi McVee (10:42)
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (10:53)
minimum and from there we kind of build on that skill set so like I've never heard a two-year-old wake up in the morning and be like mommy daddy I'm just like really having some big feelings today not super loving the thought of having to transition out of my cozy warm jammies into my daycare clothes to like I don't really love it so I'm just needing a moment like two-year-olds don't do that they have the mother of all meltdowns
and they throw their breakfast on the floor and they turn into like little whirling dervishes that you can't possibly get their pants on. Like that's what a two year old does and that's what means I'm really struggling this morning. I'm facing all of this stuff ahead of me in my day to day and I don't love it. So I'm just letting you know. And then imagine that we're like, that's enough. Go sit on the naughty mat. Like the worst.
Kristi McVee (11:32)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I guess and like you mentioned about the absence or like the taking away of like, so for me, like when I think about punishments, like, you know, I was, you know, not spoken to, sent to my room, smacked, all of those things. And so what that did was, and as a 45 year old woman, unwinding all of this learnings, wishing I had have known this before I had a child, because I tell you what, my parenting, even though I tried really hard not to model some of
that
I did it unconsciously and then I guess for parents listening ⁓ one thing I will say is this when I realized what I was doing I would always go back and apologize I would always say look that I didn't handle that situation very well mum mum like lost it
when I could and when I was conscious because sometimes we have that moment. I mean it didn't make me feel always feel good but you know at least I was like repairing and I think that's what this generation of parents is doing the best is we repair better than any generation before us. We say sorry, we explain why or how it made us like how we were struggling in the moment. A lot of us do. I'm not saying everyone does but a lot of us do and I think that's what this generation is really good at.
Vanessa Lapointe (12:41)
Yeah.
certainly more
so than the generation before and no shade. they, I have a resolute belief that everybody everywhere is doing the very best that they can given the circumstances that they find themselves in and given those from which they have come. And I started my career in child protection. So I have seen a lot of not great stuff and you know, I can look back and really not excuse, but certainly explain the behavior of some of those folks who were just at the effect of
Kristi McVee (13:01)
Yeah, I know.
Vanessa Lapointe (13:23)
their lives and not able to kind of process in any different way. And I really connect with the idea of atonement as parents. And I love playing with language and words. And so if you take the word atone and you break it down, it literally translates into at one, we become at one again. And I don't need you to forgive me because you're my child, I need nothing from you. And I want for you to know that I have clocked.
that that didn't go well. And that's not the kind of mom slash dad slash parent that I want to be. And I registered that, I am working on that. It is not your responsibility. And I'd like for it to go differently in the future. And I think you just see kids go.
Kristi McVee (14:05)
Yes.
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (14:08)
when
they get that kind of inspiration.
Kristi McVee (14:10)
Yeah, I told this story recently and I'll tell it again so that you can have your like input on it. about six months ago, so my daughter's 18, she's moved out of home. But before she moved out of home, it was before she even chose to move out of home. And like, that's a big thing for today's generation. My daughter's like, right, I'm ready to fly. She's very independent. She's an only child. So she's like, totally like, I've got this. then mom. And so you know, she's doing her thing. And I'm so proud of her.
you know, I had a moment of like, my god, my child doesn't love me. She's so ready to run away. And she you know, like I was like in tears for days thinking I have failed. But really, I think I like when I really sit with them like this is what I meant. Our kids are meant to do they they're meant to want to leave us they're meant to want to fly. And in and she hasn't gone to university. She's just you know, doing her thing. She's got a full time job and a boyfriend and she's learning life lessons, right?
But about a few months before that, I sat her down. just had this like moment of like, I need to apologize. And so I sat her down and I said, listen,
Vanessa Lapointe (15:08)
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (15:16)
I want you to know that I know that sometimes my parenting wasn't the best and that I, in the moment I was just doing what I thought was right. And sometimes I know I didn't do it right. And I, I know that I've possibly caused you some trauma over this childhood of yours, you know, like I know I've done my best, but I know that you've probably got some trauma there and right now you probably don't see it. But in a few years time or in 10 years time or whenever it pops up, when you have your own children,
If you ever come to me and say, mom, you traumatized me when you did X, Y, Z, I'm going to be here waiting for you to like, I'll be here to listen and to take responsibility for what I didn't know and what I did in the moment. And I said, and I will always have my doors always open. Please don't ever think you can't come and talk to me about it. And the reason why I did that was because I had a moment of like,
You can think you're doing the best job ever and you can think that you have like you've got this I've nailed this but your child has their own experience and so who's to say what we did thinking that we were like we've protected them we put them in a bubble we made them safe and they're like you didn't let me experience anything that's actually traumatized me you know so
Vanessa Lapointe (16:16)
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (16:28)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (16:30)
that our children choose us and they sign a contract that they come into this life with just as we have signed a contract that invariably at some point in time involves them coming into our life and with that they choose the circumstances of their birth, they choose the timing of their birth, they choose their parents and so everything is lining up exactly as was intended.
If you were meant to have done those pieces differently, whatever they may be, you would have done them differently. So nothing is random and it's all getting mapped out according to whatever plan was in place prior to. And the irony of the whole thing, which you've just so beautifully captured with the telling of the story, is that we are growing them so that they will leave us.
That is the ultimate mark of emergence is that I'm gonna like emerge and head out into the world and become who it is that nature intended for me to be. And every now and then, not always, but every now and then, that stepping away can be hard, hard for them and hard for us. And sometimes there's, because it's hard, there's a little bit of a push that happens with it. And sometimes it's our kids pushing us because we're not sure that we're ready or that we want it.
Kristi McVee (17:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (17:43)
And that's the natural state of the human condition. We are meant to individuate or become our own people, our own person. And to do that necessarily means that we must step away, step into the space that we are meant to take up in this thing called life.
Kristi McVee (17:59)
Yeah, I mean, you've got children that are similar age, you know, a bit older. And I'm imagining you've been through all of this as well, like where you're like, wow, how did this come around so quickly and what's happened? But I remember like watching other parents and because I had
the beauty, I guess, when you're a therapist or when you're seeing other people's experiences of life, right? You get lots and lots of like views into people's lives and how they've done things and what's worked and what hasn't. And as a police officer, you get the same sort of, know, view, vision. And so when I was parenting, I just remember thinking.
Our job is to help them get to adulthood. It's not to keep them. Like, we're here to shepherd them. We're here to protect them and shepherd them and get them to adulthood so that they can live their lives. Like, I just remember knowing that we can't hold them back.
and we can't like stop them from experiencing things. Right. And so a lot of parents, and I feel so bad because I'm in this really interesting position where I have to give information and awareness, but also trying to share how to keep kids safe in a space. You know, we don't want that to happen if we can prevent it. But I'm also like I'm saying is that when I was, you know, talking to kids and interviewing children, I realized that sometimes when these things happen, kids are actually very resilient and how
we help them heal from that can actually be their experience. We can't always stop it. We can reduce it. We can hopefully prevent it from happening again, but we can't always stop it. so I get parents always like, it's the worst thing that could ever happen. I'm like, it seems like it, yes. But for some children, they just bounce back and keep going. And they deal with it in the adult world, whatever. But I know that you've had the child protection background. So I'm sure you've seen exactly what I've seen.
Vanessa Lapointe (19:43)
Yeah, and I'm trying to think of what the name is. There's this Japanese art form where, you know, if a porcelain dish breaks and it's put back together using, you know, some kind of a precious metal like gold or... Yeah. And that the integrity of the dish on the other side of the repair is actually stronger. Like it becomes more robust as a result of having been broken.
Kristi McVee (19:47)
Thank
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (20:08)
but then of having been touched by this golden presence of this precious metal and it shifts what is possible going forward. And so sometimes it's out of those darkest moments that we as humans, even if we're very young when those kinds of things occur, that we are molded into something that we are meant to be, that that experience opens a door that allows us to
Kristi McVee (20:28)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (20:35)
see and hear and understand the world in ways that other people simply wouldn't be able to because they haven't had that same history or those same experiences.
Kristi McVee (20:44)
Yeah, that's a beautiful way to explain trauma really and to when things something happens and you know, like I think at the moment we're in that transition space where we're trying to work out how not to do life and how not to do parenting and families and you know, and how to, obviously do it better and to make everyone feel connected. I think one of the things that I love about your work is that, you know, you talk about non-punitive or non-punishment parenting and then
and
also the connection piece. I'd love for us to talk about, know, what are some ways that parents can, you know, when they are having those moments that are really struggling with their child's big feelings and emotions. Cause I know I haven't done it well in times and again, went back and repaired it afterwards, hopefully added some gold, you know, but the thing is, is that in the moment it's really tough, especially when you don't have the consciousness to know that you're, you know, dysregulated yourself.
Thank
Vanessa Lapointe (21:41)
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think if we can keep kind of two layers in mind always at the same time, that we don't need to know all of the answers and we will begin to happen into the answers if we can keep those two layers in mind. And the first layer, which I think is often overlooked, is that whatever it is that's happened with your child,
where you're like seeing red or you feel devastated or whatever the situation is. It's not the grown up you that is feeling that way. It is some childlike version of you that still lives inside of you. We are all the ages that we have ever been, which means I'm 51, but I have a two-year-old Amin, a four-year-old Amin, all the ages on up to present day.
And my boys being 19 and 22, the things that are triggering in me now as a parent of young adults are the things that when I was a young adult were a bit wobbly for me. It was hard for me to sort of navigate. And I did and I landed and here we are. And now as I sit in observance of my children, moving through those same things, I can feel it sort of come up in me. And so to always clock that, your triggers.
You're never upset for the reason that you think. You think you're upset because your kid's having a meltdown in the public place and everybody's like, know, Judgy McJudgerson boring holes into the back of your head with their very judgmental stares and everything else. You think that that's what's upset you, but that's not what's upset you. It's probably got something to do with the fact that performance was how you secured love.
Kristi McVee (22:58)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (23:18)
when you were a child and so now you run this performance program and in your own eyes right now you are failing and all these other people are witnessing it. And so that's what's triggered you. It's not your kid. It's that pre-existing version of you who onboarded that program. So that's the first layer to understand. We're never upset for the reasons we think. All overreaction is always an age regression that takes us historically back into our past. And the more that you can sit
and just even be curious about that part. Then, a little bit of the steam out of the moment at hand. And then the second thing, so first thing is, who are you? And where have you come from? What's alive in you right now? The second thing is, who's your kid? What's alive in them right now? What's their little temperament? Are they orchids, are they dandelions, or did...
Kristi McVee (23:57)
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (24:06)
use my colleague, Meggy Dense language, are they roosters? Are they lambs? Are they rooster orchids or rooster dandelions? You know, there's all these different ways that you can make sense of a child's temperament. Where are they at developmentally? What kinds of behaviors must they engage in right now to be able to flex the developmental muscle and go and grow? And so who are you? Who is your kid? Put those two things together on repeat and watch how you start to become actually really adept at being able to navigate those two planes.
you know, in synchrony in real time. And eventually over time, it's like a muscle. The more you practice, the stronger it gets. You become increasingly able to hang on to self. And then you get to gift your kids like a totally different experience because you won't be four years old trying to raise a four year old.
Kristi McVee (24:54)
I wish I hadn't like, I seriously kick myself, you don't know what you don't know. And if any parents sitting here going, my gosh, why didn't I know this? You don't know what you don't know.
And I seriously haven't known this until my daughter grew up. so when my mind you, when she became a teenager, that's when my in a teenager was triggered. And so she was completely in control. A lot of the times like I, I remember having an argument with my daughter and she's like, who's the parent here? And I'm like, ⁓ that's meant to be me.
You know, and so I remember reverting back into like a teenage self and like arguing like a teenager. And I was like, far out, what is going on here? And it wasn't until I learned more after I left.
and I realized that sometimes when we have trauma and when our kids get to that age, that can actually trigger up that trauma and you're like literally being reminded or remembering stuff that's happened and then you revert back to that age, literally.
Vanessa Lapointe (25:54)
Yeah, super fun. And kids weren't meant to raise other kids. So then it gets very interesting.
Kristi McVee (25:59)
you
Yeah, yeah, I have noticed that, you know, for us and I think just being aware of that is a really big stepping stone from a lot of parents and you know, I have a lot of parents contact me, especially when they have their children or their children get to the age that they were sexually abused and they go, I never remembered any of it. Why is it coming up now? And I'm like, how old is your child? And then they're like, ⁓ and I'm like, yeah, it's like weird how the brain protects you. It's like done its job. It's protected you. But now you see
Vanessa Lapointe (26:15)
Yes.
Kristi McVee (26:28)
you
and your child and so and you weren't allowed to like talk about it or you weren't allowed to you it wasn't safe to share or whatever reasoning and then your brain goes yeah exactly and yeah so I think a lot of us need to be a bit more kinder to ourselves because
Vanessa Lapointe (26:30)
Yeah.
Or you did stare and you weren't hurt.
Kristi McVee (26:47)
When we realize that we didn't have those opportunities or those discussions or you didn't have the person to go to, it makes sense that your brain, because a lot of us see ourselves in our children. And if you weren't allowed to cry, you weren't allowed to have a tantrum, you weren't allowed to share, you had to be quiet and suppress. Then when your child gets triggered and is trying to tell you what's going on for them, you're going to be triggered by that because you weren't allowed to have that.
Vanessa Lapointe (27:13)
Exactly, exactly. And there'll be a part of you maybe inside that feels like it's unfair. And so you can have that sort of animosity then visited upon your child from the inner child inside of you who's like, wait a second, if I had done that, heads would have rolled. So how come you get to get away with that? No fair. The thing though that I think is really important is that, well, first off, the female brain,
XX brain doesn't mature until somewhere around 25 years of age and the XY brain 30 years of age, which means that neuroplasticity is still on your side if you've got a kid kind of under those age ranges. The other thing is, I work with parents from all around the world. And in addition to that, I'm part of a conscious community where we meet on a weekly basis and kind of work through some of these kinds of things, you know, why we get triggered and all this stuff. And so I've been able to witness hundreds of people now.
some of whom are grandparents, many of whom who have adult children. And as soon as they begin that inner journey of making sense of their inner world and coming to terms with how that may have impacted their outer world, there's like a pulse that goes out into the family system, like this ripple effect that begins. And you could have a child who's 45, 50 plus years of age, who all of the sudden you start to see
kind of miracles happening in their life as an extension of what the parents maybe even in their 70s or 80s has taken on as their own journey of wanting to heal. And so I think it's lovely for people to really know not just because it's fluffy and feel good, but because it's real and this is how it happens, that it really isn't ever too late. And so don't despair in that. Dig in and do your work because you can create miracles regardless of age and stage.
Kristi McVee (28:59)
Yeah, I agree. I've had, well, interestingly with my own story, because I didn't grow up with my mom, but when I was writing my book, I approached her and said, look, I only know one side of the story. know the side that I grew up on and I know my side, but I don't know your side. And she was terrified because she was like, she thought I was going to attack her and like tell her that, you know, like she'd let me down and she abandoned me, even though those were the feelings I had as a child and as an adult.
I was like, I got to a point in my...
process where I was like, you know, I don't actually know what happened for you. And so I was, I was open to hear it. Right. And so I approached my mom and I said to her, you know, I just want to hear your side of the story. doesn't matter what happened. I just want to understand how it was for you. And she was, she was like, she had to hang up and bring me back. And she was like, I thought you were going to yell at me. I thought you, you know, I was petrified that you were going to take like blame me. And I was like, no, I like, I'm past the point of blame. I just want to understand.
And so that was a big moment, think, also for myself, because it let go a lot of that hurt that was inside of me by understanding her side. I mean, it's not fair and none of it was fair for anyone. But, you know, I think we really miss, like you said, for it doesn't matter what age you're at by acknowledging that, you know, like the healing part of it actually does make a big difference. And I think it helped for my daughter as well. Like we want to be the generation
that breaks all of these cycles and these this stuff right and I think we're doing a good job sometimes we just don't realize how small it can be.
Vanessa Lapointe (30:37)
Yeah, yeah.
And it's in all of those moments where things are a bit, you know, kind of grindy that the opportunity presents. John Bradshaw, who wrote a beautiful book called Homecoming, which was all about, you know, reconnecting with your inner child. He said, it's never too late to have a good childhood.
in any moment you could be given an opportunity to have a do-over, to re-template that part of yourself. And so there you are having this conversation with your mom all of these years later and the little seven-year-old girl inside of you finally gets to like take this big deep breath and lean into the support of both of her parents, you know, with the expanse of the story in front of her and sort of a re-conceptualization of what that actually.
was for everybody involved. It's such a brilliant example of how we can rewrite those experiences even in present day. In fact, I'm just reading a book now. It's newly released by a woman named Nicole LaPera who goes by the holistic psychologist online. And I think it's called, it's something to do with the inner child. And that's the thesis of the entire book is in real time, how you can do the orays.
back to previous versions of self and give yourself what it was that you didn't get and actually really needed in those formative moments when you were young.
Kristi McVee (31:57)
Yeah, I mean
And this is, that was the whole point of that conversation with my daughter is that it, in my, you know, whether it was good, bad or otherwise, there's moments there that I probably thought, Oh, I, you know, I didn't realize that I was probably hurting her or upsetting her. I, had this like realization that it doesn't matter how hard you try there is like moments of like hurt, pain, heartache that can leave like a scar that might not heal so healthily or might get infected.
like if we want to talk in a physical sense and so because our scars inside can't we can't see them and we can't see the scars that we leave on our kids and and then when you're an adult and you're processing all of these things like I didn't think about this stuff in my 20s you know I started thinking about this stuff in my 30s and you know like it's this is the thing like but
Vanessa Lapointe (32:41)
We're
Kristi McVee (32:47)
I think if we realize that even when we try our hardest, we're going to leave little moments of like, our children will go. Well, that actually didn't work out very well for me. I now have this like ongoing belief that I don't, you know, whatever it is, like my daughter is possibly, you know, she's a people pleaser, possibly because I was a police officer and I was like,
we need to do it like this, you know, know, those are stuff that she probably will go to me one day. Well, now I'm a people pleaser. Why did you do this to me?
Vanessa Lapointe (33:18)
And it is true in the words of James Hollis, a Jungian psychoanalyst who's written a zillion books and he's like the most brilliant human. He said, all of our children suffer their greatest wounds at the hands of their parents. That's how it works. Like that's the way the system of how we be, how it's all set up. And with that, there is opportunity then in every single one of.
those triggered moments for us to kind of reflect back and find our way forward. And he's also the person that said, you know, I don't have an office full of 20 year olds. I have an office full of 40 year olds, 50 year olds and 60 year olds. Because it's not until we get to our second adulthood, where we're like, wait a second, that went the way that it was supposed to go.
Kristi McVee (33:52)
No.
Vanessa Lapointe (34:03)
And then we get interested, you know, we have our midlife crisis, we blow up a marriage or two, you know, we do the things that we do. And then we get interested in being like, wait a second, this is not the end of my story. Like, I don't want this to be the end. So how will I dig deep and actually make sense of why I continue to self-sabotage, why I, you know, go into all of these experiences and drop the ball when I meant to be, you know, crossing the finish line or whatever your pattern is that
We get curious about that when we hit that second adulthood and then we get a chance to do it all over again.
Kristi McVee (34:38)
Yeah, and a lot of us have had kids really young. then we're going, ⁓ my gosh, like I said to my husband and we have we with one and only like, and we've been together 30 years. And so when you said blowing up your marriage, I was like, yeah, that sounds about right. I mean, menopause, perimenopause. I'm like, why?
just stay away from me and he's like whoa whoa whoa where does this woman come from? But yeah I think about the fact that if I had kids now which my dad was in his 40s when he had me I would be a much different parent now than I was in my 20s so you know like sometimes you
Vanessa Lapointe (34:58)
Yeah.
Same girl.
Kristi McVee (35:12)
Like, hello, but then, you know, like, and then I also would be a different human if I hadn't have had her in my 20s. Like I wouldn't have had all of the experiences that parenthood gives you. So it doesn't matter when you do it. It's just, it's a whole journey, right? Yeah. I love that about, you know, that we can re-parent and stuff like that. I think what I'm learning, and when I speak to people like yourself, what I'm learning is that most of the journey is about parenting yourself and being coming from like,
helping you understand you so that you can be there to support your child. And it changes the whole way through from zero to 18, like, and even over 18, right? So you're constantly re-parenting yourself in the moment. And I think that's, I don't think, no, no one told me when I signed up for parenthood that this is what I'm doing.
Vanessa Lapointe (35:54)
Yeah.
That's right. And you know, if there could be sort of a an overarching motto or takeaway, it's like parents do your own work. You have to grow you if you want to grow them. So it's not just about you know, what to expect when you're expecting what to expect in the toddler years. Like that's that's I mean, that'll get you a certain way but then you're gonna
later on that afternoon, there's going to be something come up that you're like, I read about this is it's developmentally typical behavior, and yet you're going to lose your schmick about it because you you are triggered by it in some way. And so you can read all of the books and do all of the things but until you've addressed the inner inner architecture of who it is that you are, you won't be able to shift the external presentation of how it is that you show up as a parent and otherwise.
Kristi McVee (36:47)
Yeah, yeah, I agree. again, like the the times, the one thing that I want to ask you is, with regards to what I see is that we we over we, we expect a lot from toddlers, but we expect less from teenagers like this. For me, my experiences is like we're like,
we expect toddlers to know how to you know regulate themselves and yet when they get to teenage would we like hands off well they're just teenagers like i don't know is it just me or is that actually happening because i constantly do this
Vanessa Lapointe (37:17)
You know, I think people are befuddled by teens and there's a lot of weird pop culture around the adolescent phase where, like you don't see this around so much more anymore because drinking has become less sort of socially acceptable in some ways. But there used to be like coffee mugs. She's the reason I drink, you know, like there's that's that was our our expectation of adolescence. And I think.
You know, really what we know from the science of child development is that the adolescent period is a really potent period of development where the brain, if you read Dan Siegel's book called Brainstorm, like the brain's like inverting itself trying to figure out, you know, who am I and what am I doing in this thing called life? And so it's odd that when kids are in such a incredibly important phase of development, we're like, ⁓ best of luck, you know? And I think the problem is we're really
Kristi McVee (38:06)
Yeah, it's like it ends off the-
Vanessa Lapointe (38:09)
Yeah, and the idea is that you can't retire then. Like you have to, even though your teen is not needing you physically in the same way that your toddler would have needed you, your teen still really needs you. And this is not the time to be retiring.
Kristi McVee (38:25)
I feel like you need to be more available in the teen years than you do in the early years.
Vanessa Lapointe (38:29)
Yeah?
Yeah.
Kristi McVee (38:30)
being
a child of like, you know, between zero to say, 10, they need the necessities of life, they need comfort and support, they need you to be like supportive and to, help them do things and develop and be there, right? But once they hit a certain age, they actually need you to be ready to help put out fires, to help them put out fires, they're dealing with bullying, peer pressure, you know,
Like you said, our kids today are drinking less, but it doesn't mean that they're not being exposed to other things. And it doesn't mean that they're not, yeah. And right. And so for me, that's when I actually retired from the police. My daughter was 11 turning 12. And I am so grateful that I had that this last six years of like being intensely able to parent and be present because if I had a still been in the police, I probably wouldn't have even had a clue what was going on for her in those moments. And I think that's the hard part is
Vanessa Lapointe (39:05)
yes.
Yeah, yeah.
Kristi McVee (39:28)
that we've got such busy lives and I think it's easy to think that kids, once they get to teens, we've done our job, it's okay, but I think, yeah, they're fine. Doesn't mean that they, like I make a joke when I'm doing keynote saying, my parents had no idea what I was doing. I could have been running a drug ring and they would have had no idea as long as I showed up for dinner at six o'clock. They had no idea.
Vanessa Lapointe (39:47)
Yeah, yeah.
And when you have teens, the pull is to just kind of, you know, they look like adults. You know, my boys started getting facial hair and they start driving cars and they're doing all the things. They get a job. They're mimicking a lot of these adult behaviors. But we know internally, both in terms of physical development and where the brain is at, and also in terms of emotional development and where that sense of self is at, they're definitely not grown. And our job is to show up for work.
as a parent every single day, whether you are put to work or not. And so when my boys were in that stage, I mean, as much as possible, I was, of course, involved in their extracurriculars and all those things. And even if they were hanging with their friends, I was in the kitchen or in the living room because I knew while they were boys, so they were going to end up in the kitchen at some point. And I knew that that was how I made myself available to them, because it's not every time that I would say to them, what's going on? You want to talk? You know,
nine times out of ten they're like no peace out bro like i don't want to talk about anything but you keep showing up and then there comes the day you know they come home from the party and they see you sitting waiting and big warm welcome and all the things and then you see that pause as their foot hits that first stare and you know it's on and they'll circle back and you end up having this big vulnerable conversation about you know something that happened three weeks ago or whatever it is
Kristi McVee (41:03)
Yes.
Vanessa Lapointe (41:11)
You have to keep showing up because they really need you during that stage.
Kristi McVee (41:17)
Yeah, I needed my parents and I didn't have that. And that's what I think fueled me as a parent.
to be that person that my daughter could turn to in any moment that she needed me. And I constantly reminded her over those years, it doesn't matter what you need, like, I will love you no matter what you do, what happens, I will always be there, nothing you can do or say will ever make me stop loving you. And even when she was horrendous to me, I would say, and I was like,
ready to like, like strangle her, I would say nothing you can say or do will ever make me stop loving you. I don't love everything that you're saying right now because it's hurting, but I do love you and when you're ready, I'm here to talk. Like when you're ready, I'm here to listen. And so, you know, and so it's funny because most of our really...
tough conversations happened in the car. And so a couple of months ago, when she was like considering moving out, she's like, can we go for a drive?
Vanessa Lapointe (42:14)
Haha,
that's right!
Kristi McVee (42:17)
So she wanted to go for a drive because that's her safe place.
Vanessa Lapointe (42:22)
And you know, we used to at the clinic that I've operated for many years, we had a room that we had set aside specifically for the adolescent counselors, the ones counseling adolescents. And we made a point because they all wanna talk in the car. And the reason why they wanna talk in the car is that like it's very vulnerable to talk like this, it's less vulnerable to talk like this. And so we set the adolescent counseling room up instead of like, a couch with the therapist chair sitting across.
Kristi McVee (42:32)
Yeah.
Vanessa Lapointe (42:49)
It was two chairs kind of angled like this. So you didn't have to look right into the channel of the eyes. You could be released from that vulnerability a little, which then allowed for them to share in a way that they might not have if they were eye to eye.
Kristi McVee (42:51)
Yeah.
I know. And that's my first, like the when talking about body safety or any tough conversations, like do it in the car, doing it laying down together, like at night when you're having that because and that was the other thing my daughter used to do. I don't know about your teens, but it'd be like nighttime and you've waited all day for them to talk to you and at 10 o'clock, she's like,
And I'm like, I'm my gosh, I'm ready for bed. Like trying to like get my brain to not fall asleep while she's telling me the biggest story of her life. And you know, she's unloading all of this drama onto my shoulders as tired as I was at times, I'd have to remind myself, this is an honor. She trusts me. This is really important. I want to be there for her.
Vanessa Lapointe (43:45)
And yet, you know, because right before we fall asleep, we're in our most vulnerable state of the day. We're facing separation from our people for eight to 10 hours. And we're sort of unplugging from that day and about to enter the transition into the next day. So it's a real vulnerable time. It's so invariably the time that kids want to share their big stories. Well, us perimenopausal moms are like, oh my God, trying to keep our eyes open.
Kristi McVee (44:09)
Yeah,
I know. Well, and I've got to give this to Maggie because you mentioned Maggie Dent. She has a...
Years gone by when my daughter was about six, we were having trouble with sleep time because she was like, you know that panic of what if I don't wake up? ⁓ what if what if this happens? ⁓ all of these things, right? So Maggie has this really beautiful like meditation before bed and like we listen to it for a year straight every time and bubble around you and you've got this night looking over you and you've got whoever you want to be there. And anyway, it's on Maggie's website for anyone listening and it was so
Vanessa Lapointe (44:45)
free.
Kristi McVee (44:45)
And so I guess we got into that, like I used to go, what color is your bubble? And she'd say, what color is your bubble? And we'd tell each other like the colors of the bubble. And today my bubble is rainbow. it's got like, yeah, anyway, so we had those moments and I think everything we do with our kids from birth, we set them up for.
being strong, independent young people who can stand on their own two feet and be hopefully find their way without, know, yes, they're going to need us forever. I don't think they ever stop needing you. It's just that you want them to be able to fly without you because that's really what parenting is about.
Vanessa Lapointe (45:17)
You got it. That's brilliantly said.
Kristi McVee (45:20)
Well,
thank you so much, Dr. Vanessa LaPointe. I can't believe the amazing person on scene. honestly, I cried all through that documentary. If you haven't seen it, everyone like go and see it. It's really about parents. It's not about it's about kids, but it's about parenting yourself again. And yeah. And how can they find you as well if they want to follow or just learn more about your books and everything that you're doing? Because I know you've got a podcast
yourself.
Vanessa Lapointe (45:49)
Well, I have, they can hop on the website. That's sort of where everything is sort of housed. It's DR, Dr. Vanessa LaPointe with an E on the end.com. And there's information about, I have a bunch of video courses on anxiety and discipline, some other seminars that we've filmed that are up there for people to consume. There also is a village that people can be part of if you're just looking to sort of surround yourself with like-minded parents. We do monthly Q and A's and you get a.
Kristi McVee (46:14)
Thank you.
Vanessa Lapointe (46:15)
weekly video message from me and these kinds of things. I'm very active on social media, both Instagram and on Facebook and on TikTok. So I don't quite understand TikTok.
Kristi McVee (46:24)
Yes! Yay,
you took the queen!
Vanessa Lapointe (46:28)
So, ⁓ you know, and that's all $3.99. Like there's no cost to consume that. I, it's interesting. I hear from a lot of people who I'll never meet, but they've watched every single video. And sometimes I'll get up in the morning and I can see people's activity and they'll be like the same person that's hearted like 52 videos overnight. And I know, I know that person's probably in a dark night of the soul. They're probably trying to find their way through.
And I hear from people over the years how much even those 60 second snippets, you know, sustain them as they find their way through. So those would be all the spaces and places. And certainly if you're keen to think about some individual work, it's inside the parent transformation journey, a container that I open up a couple of times a year and we'll be opening up again in September for the next intake. And so that's an option as well.
Kristi McVee (46:58)
Yes.
Fantastic. Yeah, I think that you're right. Like people are really in the thick of it. And that's when they're looking for people to shine a light and to remind them that it's okay. Like we can't stuff this up as long as we keep trying and we keep repairing, adding that gold back in and you know, and just, I think the main point and the main point I saw time and time again is just share love with your kids and be, and find ways to connect with them. And just know that all every child
ever wants is to be loved, that's it. Yeah, thank you so much. I'm really appreciative and I'll share everything in the show notes and I think you're a gem of a person and I would like to say we consider you a bit of an Aussie, like a...
Vanessa Lapointe (47:49)
Yeah and only love is real.
Kristi McVee (48:04)
and adopted Aussie because you're Canadian. So it's quite funny. I know that you've got lots of great, you've been over in Australia a few times and like we keep bringing you back. So hopefully we'll catch up when you come back to Australia.
Vanessa Lapointe (48:17)
I think I might have been Australian in some past life because from the moment I first stepped foot in your beautiful country, I just felt so at home and I have, you know, my best friends and dearest colleagues live in Australia and so certainly Australia has my heart and I would be thrilled to be back anytime.
Kristi McVee (48:22)
you
Yeah, I hope you will be. Thanks Dr. Vanessa.
Vanessa Lapointe (48:42)
Thanks, Kristi.
Kristi McVee (48:43)
And that is a wrap on season 2026 of Conversations with Christie. What an episode to go out on. wanna say a huge thank you to Dr. Vanessa LaPointe for her time, her wisdom and her honesty, and especially her heart. If this conversation sparked something in you, I really encourage you to go and follow her. You can find everything at drvanessalapointe.com.
She has video courses, a monthly Q and A community, and she is incredibly active on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. Look at her go. Links are in the show notes if you wanna follow her. And if today's episode reminded you that you're not alone in this messy, beautiful chaos of parenting, please share it. Share it with a friend, a partner, a parent at school drop off. Because the more we talk about this stuff, the more we break cycles and we build something better for our kids. I'll be back with a brand new season soon.
Until then, take care of yourself, repair when you need to, and remember all your child ever really needs is you. See you next time.
